I’m genuinely not sure that, on the point he was addressing, anyone was more hyperbolic than:
That they are INCONSIDERATE and thus not worth the carbon molecules they are composed of because they tend to run late?
I don’t think anyone ever equated being inconsiderate with being worthless as a human being. Of course I could be wrong. This is the SDMB. In any case I did not use such hyperbole.
that’s not hyperbole?? devaluing someone’s worth ‘as a human being’ because they are chronically late? :eek:
Strictly speaking, that is a true statement. Dishonesty, unreliability, and the inability to navigate the space-time continuum as well as others is a both a failing and a handicap. It does devalue a person’s worth in the world other things being equal. It certainly doesn’t enhance it.
HAH! Of course you are right. That is some hyperbole. Luckily I didn’t say it. As Shagnasty points out, it does have a grain of truth to it.
You said you don’t think your time has importance to anyone other than you. This thread is full of posts of people claiming that being late means the late guy doesn’t think the other persons time is valuable. Congrats, you and the late person agree on something. Why the fuss that someone agrees with you?
Perhaps the answer is that people have pet peeves. Mine is people who add IE or Y to the end of names that don’t have it already. Yours is people being late. The difference is, I don’t think shortening Robert to Robbie makes someone narcissistic or morally inferior. I just think their name sounds stupid that way, perhaps mutter a little under my breath, and move on.
On the other hand, you think people are narcissistic, morally inferior, etc just because not everyone will play your reindeer games. Honestly, I’d rather deal with the late guy than someone so damned judgmental. At least the late guy won’t be bad mouthing me and calling me morally inferior over such a stupid and trivial issue.
You think it’s valid reasoning for your argument, but it actually confirms mine. How do you know they are “such people” without making plans with them and getting to know them in the first place?
Not at all. See original post plus extended explanation on rigidity in lifestyle. Mostly, see example of everyone wanting pizza but because they have their mind set on Chinese, they can’t work around that. Hell, I spelled it out for you, so if you can’t understand what I’m saying the first time the first time you read it, reread it. Then again, you said I was propping up a strawman, so it’s not valid, right?
Blind as a bat, or deliberately obtuse? Is this going to devolve into one of those “Prove what I said!” and then “I didn’t mean it like that!” threads? See post #167 (your own post, at that) and my quoted portion of your post in #209. You’re so specific in assigning their quality of inconsideration, you even wrote out what they were thinking and would say!
Oh hell, you reiterate my points so well, why am I even posting?
Is this the equivalent of when my ex would say “Stop being so emotional! Your argument doesn’t make sense when you get like that!” to invalidate my points? Lest you or anyone else think I’m gnashing my teeth over this, I’m not. Although, I can see how it’s hard to hear the tone of my words on a message board. Like I said before, I used to be uptight about timeliness, but then I expanded my horizons and have learned to relax and not get worked up over things I can’t change about other people. If it doesn’t please you to get to the bottom of their chronic lateness because it’s your deal breaker, so be it. Yes, there are cases where they have no redeeming qualities, and it does boil down to them thinking your time is worthless. But how do you know that when you never become friends with them in the first place?
Let’s back up here godix – I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt here for a moment and assume you haven’t assimilated the discussion yet.
You equate being late to pet peeves like “people who add IE or Y to the end of names that don’t have it already”. You imply that the only difference between the two is interpretational.
Am I missing something, or do you genuinely believe that, for example, adding IE or Y to the end of a name that doesn’t have it already is the same as standing someone up? In the former case, the only offense is to your sense of aesthetics. In the latter case, you are wasting someone’s time. That is time they might have wanted to spend with their children, or used to work overtime to make an extra 10 or 20 bucks.
Does anyone else think Grapefruit is making any sense? If so, I’ll respond to him. Otherwise I think he might need a time out.
Since you are friends, you already know about their chronic lateness. So when you want to have lunch at 1, why not say 12:30? If you’re of the mindset “Well, why should I accommodate their tardiness? It’s their bad quality, not mine!” then eat with them with whatever time you have left until you have to attend to your appointment and say “Wish we had more time, but I have to get going.” In this specific situation, I wouldn’t be fine as in “No worries, you’re still the most considerate person in the world” but I wouldn’t let their actions provoke me into a frenzy.
That would annoy me. Specifically because this is a special situation and even when you spelled it for her, she was late. I’ve never been married, so I don’t know, would there be a lot of backlash if you told the chronically late “Being a bridesmaid requires punctuality, since you don’t have this quality in all the time I’ve known you, I’ll have to ask another girl”?
LOL again.
Oh, and I just realized my “hyperbole” was discussed extensively. As you seem to be lacking in comprehension… it was meant as a question to clarify your statement on people’s denial. What are they in denial about? I’ll happily retract my “hyperbole” if you can offer a response.
I’ll stop reading right here - being as I’m a narcissist (damn! that word gets harder to spell every time!), I really don’t need to hear any more, do I? 
For the most part, that is the difference. In neither case is the other person doing it to annoy it. In many cases, they don’t even know it annoys you. Instead, you interpret it as annoying. It’s YOUR issue with how you view it, not the other persons issue with how they intend it.
Perhaps it’s a difference in slang, but I always thought standing someone up was if you don’t show up at all.
The thing is, if you know that person is always late then you knew you didn’t have to show up on time either. You could have used that time with children or earning extra money. Instead you choose to show up somewhere when you KNEW the other person wouldn’t be there. Again, your issue, not theirs.
Wow. Five pages of replies. I’ve created a monster thread.
The late person might not be doing it to annoy you because most people who are always late are very narcissistic. If they realized that being late annoys and inonveniences people they would be on time. Problem is they don’t care.
I have to ask, though some have asked already, specifically for your situation with your husband, how have you let him know you’re annoyed aside from seething quietly in your car with the kids?
I don’t know your husband, so I don’t know what would work for him… but when he says he still has time, can you not say “No. You do not have time for the computer. What you have time for is helping me with the kids before you get ready.”
The thing is, why should she have to? Why should I have to tell my chronically late friend to be there a half hour before I want to meet them? Does everyone have to baby them or manipulate them? Are they not both adults? Why can’t they be ready at a time they have agreed to?
(And yes, I normally leave when I have to leave even if they are late, because I keep my committments. But I did just waste a half hour of my day)
I’ve tried everything and he is fully aware of how much it irritates me but I can’t get him to change. I guess it’s like asking an early person to be late. You just can’t do it.
Trust me I’m not seething quietly in the car. I let him know how much it irritates me. The last thing I am is quiet. when he gets upset he resorts to the silent treatment and there is nothing I hate more than that. Drives mu up the wall.
[Although no one responded in the positive that Grapefruit has been making enough sense to warrant a response … he is making it so easy for me I can’t help myself]
Because it is such a hoot, and speaks for itself, let me start off by literally cutting and pasting the complete paragraph that you last left us with:
I appreciate how you have “expanded your horizons and learned to relax and not get worked up” about these things. This is clearly apparent. As you humbly reflected earlier in this thread:
And you know what? It shows, and I applaud your maturity.
You know, I think I could tell, the moment you started using all caps and LOL and PWND, around the same time you kindly offered to help clarify things for me given my problematic mental capacity. That was when it first became clear to me that you had really, as you said, had “grown up”, and risen above the fray.
sigh What do we have next, oh OK:
We did make plans. That is actually the entire point of this thread. Did you notice? Making plans, and not making good on them. And of course, part of getting to know people is noticing how considerate they are of other people. If they are repeatedly inconsiderate of other people, it’s a pretty big minus in the budding friendship department.
Funny how I literally spelled out the inconsistency and you still didn’t get it.
So, the “latecomers’ motivations” you provided were my own, which were meant specifically to exemplify the opposite of your point. OK… let’s go with those.
Here are those examples of “latecomers’ motivations”, which you assert, and I quote, are not “OMG SO SELFISH”:
*“We need to leave in 5 minutes.”
“Nah, I would rather spend 10 minutes reading and replying on SDMB.”
“It is a 5 minute walk to get there, so we should be on time.”
“Ohhh, look at that purse in the window! I have to get it.”
“Set your alarm for 7am”
“Nah, I would rather sleep until the last possible minute and risk being late.”
“We have to go dear, don’t answer the phone”
[Picks up phone anyways] “Oh hi Bill, long time no hear!”
[she whispers] “Tell him you’ll call him back later this evening”
[But he keeps talking for 15 minutes]*
In all cases, of course, selfishness at the expense of others is what is being displayed. It is selfish, for example, to buy a purse when you know that it will make you late. You could buy the purse after your appointment, or some other time.
Let’s examine this, shall we?
You said: I point you to my first post where I describe my mother’s inability to get organized. Believe it or not, although the result is the same, the motivation is not as you point out that she lacks consideration.
I said: And again, I don’t think anyone here is calling your mother inconsiderate. We simply have never met her.
You said: Oh hell, you reiterate my points so well, why am I even posting?
Did I now?
Sure thing!
If someone close to you is inconsiderate, then defensively making excuses for their behavior is a form of denial. Being inconsiderate is not a positive trait. Nonetheless, some people, as you conveniently wrote in description of yourself “learned a few methods of coping.” Fair enough. No one is perfect, and sometimes you have to look past negative qualities in order to get some jollies. I understand that. But if you are intellectually honest, and not in denial, then you will be able to admit that being chronically inconsiderate is a negative quality, and in this context probably indicative of narcissism (for the other options see my first post in this thread, here).
Hmmm, I’m sure you realise I’m not claiming that all morality stems from punctuality.
If all other personal traits being the same, yes, the late person is a thoughtless and inconsiderate person and I feel morally superior to them.
Very illuminating. You see when I commit to meeting someone, even though the other person’s time is important only to them, for the purpose of the meeting I make it important to me too. I put their needs and expectations over mine, I go out of my way to be considerate because I think it is net benefit to society when the majority of people try to do that.
I’ll judge them all right and I’ll know I can’t trust them to be there on time. I won’t bad mouth them though. I’d just mark them down as the sort of person who is thoughtless, inconsiderate and rude. Which they would be.
I don’t realize anything of the sort since that’s not what you said. What you said is, if I’m a chronically late person than I am morally inferior to you. That IS what you said, right?
As far as ‘all other personality traits being the same’ - what does that even mean???
I’m not following your reasoning here. That you can assume that since I am usually late, then I must therefore be thoughtless and inconsiderate in all other areas of my life as well? Is that what you’re saying? And therefore the converse would be equally true - since you are punctual and reliable, that means that you are always thoughtful and considerate in all other areas of your life?
Enlighten me.