The psychology of punctual people vs late people according to lisalan

[ZipperJJ]

@DCnDC

I learned from my father, who was the master of punctuality. Whenever he/we were going anywhere and had to be there at a specific time, Dad would be there on the dot every single time. Whenever he was picking me up from somewhere, he’d show up at exactly the minute he was supposed to, without fail. And it’s not like he was showing up early and just waiting around the corner for the right time, he just had an almost supernatural ability to judge distance and traffic at any given time to determine when to leave the house to get somewhere at a specific time.

Perhaps I inherited it because I’m able to (mostly) do this without even thinking about it, although I occasionally show up somewhere crazy early. If I had to analyze it I suppose it’s mostly a matter of being ready to go whenever and knowing the area exceptionally well.

My dad and I are like this too. We are very proud of our punctuality, and we often arrive places on the dot. Both of us are definitely very good at navigation and knowing the area. If we’re going to an unfamiliar place, we tend to consult a lot of maps and do a lot of planning.

I think part of our punctuality is due to our social anxiety (another trait we share). The last thing we ever want is to stick out in any way. If we ever had to be told “you’re late” or if we inconvenienced others by being late, or if we walked in to a room and people stared at us because we’re late, we might just die.

We’d much rather be on time than embarrassed.

My roommate is very much a free spirit, and so is his mom. He’s the sort of guy with face piercings, visible tattoos and funny hair. Obviously he is not afraid of being stared at. Totally sweet guy but also chronically late. Sometimes hours late. I don’t think he’s trying to make people talk about him or trying to make an entrance, but it doesn’t bother him when it happens like it would bother me.

[LilyoftheField]

@madmonk28

Exactly, when it is important to their own goals, they are on time, but when negatively impacts others, they don’t care. It is the definition of narcissism.

well, gosh…you say that as though it was a bad thing!

[lisalan]

@LilyoftheField

Although I can agree that punctuality shows good time management skills, I fail to see how that constitutes ‘strength of character’. Do you really believe that all you need are good time management skills to qualify as a person of strong character - selfless, dependable and respectful?

I think that it just shows that you are a punctual person - and it tells me nothing else about your character at all. However, your willingness to make global moral judgments about others based on the fact that they lack a skill that is important to you, tells me a lot more…

Yes and you can tell everything about me by one post:rolleyes:
The fact that I’m punctual means I don’t like to keep other waiting because I RESPECT their time and their feelings…
You are doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing. Don’t you realizing that? YOU are judging ME.

[lisalan]

@madmonk28

Exactly, when it is important to their own goals, they are on time, but when negatively impacts others, they don’t care. It is the definition of narcissism.

That’s what I’m saying. If being late impacts THEM then somehow they manage to be ready on time. When it impacts others suddenly they’re not so punctual are they???
Excellent post madmonk28!!!

[Cat_Whisperer]

@LilyoftheField

Well, if you valued your time as much as you expect others to, you wouldn’t be spending it sitting around waiting for someone who’s late. Especially if you’re waiting for someone that you had every reason to expect would be late, based on past experience. You are the one making the choice to wait.

Well, I get annoyed while I’m waiting - does that count?

I don’t like being a slave to the clock<snip>

Have we ever had a thread on lateness where someone didn’t post exactly that sentiment? It’s bullshit, by the way; if you’re doing things by yourself and you’re trying to do them at a specific time for no good reason, that would be being a slave to the clock. If you have other people waiting for you and you try not to be late, that’s just being a part of society.

[lisalan]

@CrazyCatLady

In all fairness, I don’t think that’s what she’s saying at all. More “What’s WRONG with people who can’t crawl out of their own ass for the 2 seconds it takes to realize that I got better shit to do than sit around waiting on them all the time?” Because, you know, it really shouldn’t take “silent seething” to make someone aware that constantly being a pain in someone’s ass is a Bad Thing and should be avoided when possible.

The fact that not being a constant pain in the ass isn’t enough incentive for someone to change is a moral failing. I’m sorry, it just is. Not a major one, obviously, but a moral failing nonetheless, because it means you don’t give a flying fuck about making someone’s life worse.

I bet you the ones who are being so antagonistic on this thread are the late people:D:p

[madmonk28]

This thread def. hits a nerve for me. I have a friend who will suggest lunch, then (after lunch time) he’ll text and say he’s late, but how about coffee? I end up spending the whole day on call for him. We’ve been friends close to 20 years, but it’s gotten worse and it has eroded the friendship until there just isn’t much left; constantly shitting on people will do that to a relationship.

[alice_in_wonderland]

You know - I use to be very punctual. If I said I was going to be somewhere at a certain time I would be there at that time on the dot if not a few minutes early.

Now I have Junior and - eh, not so much. Here’s the thing - I can plan to the minute how long it will take me to get ready, get him ready, get us in the car and get to wherever. But, if we’re stepping out the door and he blows out his diaper with poo - well, I’m gonna be late, and maybe that makes me inconsiderate. I suppose I COULD ignore the blow out and drive to wherever with Junior sitting in his own waste, but I think that would actually make me a bad mother. In the grand scheme of things, I would rather be inconsiderate of someone else’s time than be a bad mother, so that’s the choice. FWIW, I do always call and let the person know of the situation so I’m not a total jerk. Also, this applies to EVERYONE - Drs. appointments, shopping dates with friends, going to my parent’s house - everything.

Now, I don’t actually consider that a moral failing on my part. I am generally a very punctual person and if there is no blow out, they we are on time; however, sometimes shit happens (how appropos!!)

Further, I have many friends that are not from North America. Guess what - Latin time is not the same as North American time. A few years ago a boyfriend and I actually caught our hosts in a bit of a pickle by showing up at the time they indicated for a dinner party - the Mrs. was in the middle of a nap! Why? Because everyone is late in Latin America - it’s just how it is. I’m sure they considered us RUDE for showing up exactly on the button.

And that’s the thing - not everyone has to do things like everyone else. I agree that if someone is habitually late, and doesn’t care how it affects others*, they’re a douche - but I don’t think everyone who is tardy is like this - I think sometimes expectations, culture and life get in the way.

*My mother has a friend like this - she’ll show up an hour late to a dinner party and instead of saying she’s sorry or whatever she’ll say ‘Meh - I had things to do.’ like everyone else at the table didn’t. If the group goes ahead and starts without her she’ll become outraged and rant at the whole group. If she hosts at her house and people arrive even 2 minutes late, dinner will be on the table and everyone will be eating. She really is one of those people as described in the OP, but I don’t think most late people are.

[Rigamarole]

@madmonk28

Exactly, when it is important to their own goals, they are on time, but when negatively impacts others, they don’t care. It is the definition of narcissism.

Yes, in skimming the thread it seemed there is some disagreement whether the axiom about late people not respecting the time of others is true or not, so here’s the experiment I propose:

Contact a bunch of chronically late people and tell them you have $1,000 to give them, and all they have to do is show up at your office at 5:00 today. Observe how many are late.

[LilyoftheField]

@lisalan

Yes and you can tell everything about me by one post:rolleyes:
The fact that I’m punctual means I don’t like to keep other waiting because I RESPECT their time and their feelings…
You are doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing. Don’t you realizing that? YOU are judging ME.

Well, no - you’re assuming that I’m judging you, maybe 'cuz that’s what you would do? I didn’t state any judgment at all, just implied that a judgment was there. And you didn’t like that, did you? All I’m saying is that if there is a judgment, its no worse (or better!) than what you are already doing.

[kapri]

I am often late, and I disagree that being late is a choice. I don’t choose to be late. I plan everything out ahead of time and have a specific time, to the minute, that I should leave the house so that I won’t be late. But somehow my plans often go awry. Not always; at least half the time I’m on time, and when I am late, it’s usually just 5-10 minutes. But so often I plan out when to shower, what time to start and finish my makeup, what time I need to finish dressing–and still I’m late. I can’t tell you exactly why, except that the old phrase “Where did the time go?” is something that runs through my head a lot.

[kapri]

Also, I think people have different ideas of of what “late” is. Today I met several friends for lunch at noon. One of the friends and I ran into each other as we were walking into the restaurant at about 12:04. Another friend didn’t show up until 12:15. Were all three of us late? Technically, yes. But in my mind, showing up for a noon appointment at 12:04 falls well within the range of being on time.

[Shagnasty]

This is a bizarre topic that we have done before. There is an older thread in which someone defended being late as simply not having any time awareness whatsoever. I will see if I can find it because it was really strange to hear it honestly from that perspective.

It is a goddamn lie. Lack of time awareness would mean that people would show up really early sometimes, on time others, and late some of the time. We all know that doesn’t happen. It is a simple personality disorder caused by anything from narcissism to general ditzyness and there is nothing admirable or tolerable about it. The one thing we all have in common is the same amount of time in every day and these people like to steal some from others for their own purposes and deception.

Stating that you we be at a certain place at a certain time is a verbal contract and a promise. If you can’t do that consistently, it makes you a liar or more favorably, a person that lacks the ability to do simple math problems or plan ahead more than and hour or so in advance. Everyone is late due to circumstances out of their control once in a while but a general pattern of it is pathological. Even allowing for the fact that some people are predisposed to pathological conditions, the refusal to work on them for is condemning to the person in question. It is a complete and utter moral failing that reduces the person’s use in this world and their value as a human being.

[The_Bith_Shuffle]

@jz78817

there’s also the chance that he thinks you’re being selfish by trying to make him snap to your deadlines.

here’s the real answer- different people have different personalities and priorities. Get over it.

Sorry, but the two are not equally selfish. If somebody agrees to come at a certain time (and that’s what we’re talking about here) and then does not do so, that somebody shows little concern for other people’s time and planning. Of course people sometimes have good reasons to be late, like they bumped their head really badly or they suddenly had diarrhea. But nobody thinks otherwise. What we’re talking about here are habitually late people–people who will be late because they needed to get their pretty little hairdo just right, or because they had to extend a chatty cell phone conversation, or because they couldn’t bring themselves to leave for the bus stop a little bit earlier to make sure they’re not late for it.

The person who is not late is only being so “selfish” as to expect the other person to join them when they said they would so that they could do whatever they were planning on doing together. This “selfish” person is also, incidentally, the one hoping to commune with another human being.

The late person shows a lack of concern for the other person’s time and personal planning.

If you think these are equally selfish ways of dealing with people, you’re nuts.

[kapri]

@Shagnasty

The one thing we all have in common is the same amount of time in every day and these people like to steal some from others for their own purposes and deception.

Wow, that’s pretty hostile. So if I’m five minutes late meeting you for lunch, I’m doing it for my own purposes and deception? Let me assure you I am not.

As I mentioned above, I am early/on time about half the time, and a few minutes (5, 6) late other times. I feel bad about it, but I don’t know why I’m late–I’d fix it if I knew. It just happens. I’m not doing it to deceive you or whatever.

[Shagnasty]

@kapri

Wow, that’s pretty hostile. So if I’m five minutes late meeting you for lunch, I’m doing it for my own purposes and deception? Let me assure you I am not.

As I mentioned above, I am early/on time about half the time, and a few minutes (5, 6) late other times. I feel bad about it, but I don’t know why I’m late–I’d fix it if I knew. It just happens. I’m not doing it to deceive you or whatever.

The choices are either ‘deceptive’ or ‘mentally deficient’ if it is habitual. You have to pick which one fits you best. It really just a just a simple math problem that takes into account time of day, parking, and all of the other factors involved. It simply isn’t that difficult to get it right most of the time and it is better to allow just a couple of minutes in case something doesn’t go exactly as planned. That is what people that are there on time most of the time do just as a hint.

[The_Bith_Shuffle]

@kapri

Wow, that’s pretty hostile. So if I’m five minutes late meeting you for lunch, I’m doing it for my own purposes and deception? Let me assure you I am not.

As I mentioned above, I am early/on time about half the time, and a few minutes (5, 6) late other times. I feel bad about it, but I don’t know why I’m late–I’d fix it if I knew. It just happens. I’m not doing it to deceive you or whatever.

The degree of disrespect is roughly proportional to the degree of lateness. Being five minutes late is a hell of a lot more understandable than being twenty minutes late.

[LilyoftheField]

@Shagnasty

This is a bizarre topic that we have done before. There is an older thread in which someone defended being late as simply not having any time awareness whatsoever. I will see if I can find it because it was really strange to hear it honestly from that perspective.

It is a goddamn lie. Lack of time awareness would mean that people would show up really early sometimes, on time others, and late some of the time. We all know that doesn’t happen.

Oh, wait a minute here! “We all know that doesn’t happen” is the lie. It does happen - that describes me to a tee. I know that I have issues with lateness - so sometimes in an attempt to compensate, I do show up really early. I’ve spent more than a few moments sitting in parking lots waiting for the rest of my group 'cuz in my anxiety to be ‘on time’, I showed up way early! Sometimes, I manage to do it ‘right’ and show up exactly on time. But a lot of times, I’m just plain late. I’m sorry if I don’t agree with the time nazis here, but I do not consider myself to be especially inconsiderate, selfish or undependable. Yes, I can be all of those things (and I’d be willing to bet, so can you!) but I am not any of them on a regular basis! I’m sorry, but I just do not possess the gene that tells me where I should be and when I should be there at any given moment! It’s almost a crap shoot with me! I try to be on time, sometimes I overshoot, sometimes I undershoot - but regardless, its just not something that comes naturally to me.

The only point that I’m trying to make here, is that lateness in and of itself, is not a sufficient judge of character for people to feel so justified in feeling morally superior.

[The_Bith_Shuffle]

@LilyoftheField

Oh, wait a minute here! “We all know that doesn’t happen” is the lie. It does happen - that describes me to a tee. I know that I have issues with lateness - so sometimes in an attempt to compensate, I do show up really early. I’ve spent more than a few moments sitting in parking lots waiting for the rest of my group 'cuz in my anxiety to be ‘on time’, I showed up way early! Sometimes, I manage to do it ‘right’ and show up exactly on time. But a lot of times, I’m just plain late. I’m sorry if I don’t agree with the time nazis here, but I do not consider myself to be especially inconsiderate, selfish or undependable. Yes, I can be all of those things (and I’d be willing to bet, so can you!) but I am not any of them on a regular basis! I’m sorry, but I just do not possess the gene that tells me where I should be and when I should be there at any given moment! It’s almost a crap shoot with me! I try to be on time, sometimes I overshoot, sometimes I undershoot - but regardless, its just not something that comes naturally to me.

The only point that I’m trying to make here, is that lateness in and of itself, is not a sufficient judge of character for people to feel so justified in feeling morally superior.

So I’m a “time nazi” if I think it’s disrespectful to be twenty minutes late to a dinner meeting? No doubt you have mentally constructed some demographic of straw men who think being late is as bad as thievery or racism; nobody thinks such a thing. We simply think that lateness is a form of disrespect, and that habitual lateness is a moderately immoral trait. All other things people equal, I do feel a bit morally superior to someone who is habitually late.

When you say “I’m sorry, but I just do not possess the gene that tells me where I should be and when I should be there at any given moment!” you act like there’s nothing that could help you with this. Are you incapable of using a planning notebook? Do you not carry a watch? Have you made an effort to keep better track of time?

[Shagnasty]

@LilyoftheField

Oh, wait a minute here! “We all know that doesn’t happen” is the lie. It does happen - that describes me to a tee. I know that I have issues with lateness - so sometimes in an attempt to compensate, I do show up really early. I’ve spent more than a few moments sitting in parking lots waiting for the rest of my group 'cuz in my anxiety to be ‘on time’, I showed up way early! Sometimes, I manage to do it ‘right’ and show up exactly on time. But a lot of times, I’m just plain late. I’m sorry if I don’t agree with the time nazis here, but I do not consider myself to be especially inconsiderate, selfish or undependable. Yes, I can be all of those things (and I’d be willing to bet, so can you!) but I am not any of them on a regular basis! I’m sorry, but I just do not possess the gene that tells me where I should be and when I should be there at any given moment! It’s almost a crap shoot with me! I try to be on time, sometimes I overshoot, sometimes I undershoot - but regardless, its just not something that comes naturally to me.

The only point that I’m trying to make here, is that lateness in and of itself, is not a sufficient judge of character for people to feel so justified in feeling morally superior.

I am going to try to believe you with all my heart to assume this is the case. What I am trying really hard to understand is why you can’t figure out the math involved about getting from Point A to Point B possibly with steps in between. I am really bad with directions so I have been late because I simply got lost and I felt horrible about it. However, since cheap GPS units have become available, it simply isn’t that hard to know how long it takes to get from one place to another even with traffic. I got one because it helps everybody and that was mostly problem solved. That doesn’t seem like nearly as good an excuse as it once did.