The Qu'ran. Is it the word of God?

[Beastal]

As most of you may be aware, Muslims claim that the Noble Qu’ran is the direct word of God, as revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, via the angel Gabriel.

I’ve been reading up lately on the alleged ‘miraculous’ nature of the Qu’ran, and found the following article, which appears to show the Qu’ran accurately reporting the speed of light. Bear in mind, Muhammad claimed to have received these revelations in the 7th century AD, well before this type of knowledge was known.

The full article is here:

http://www.najaco.com/islam/islam_science/islam_science21.htm

But I will paste the relevant section.

Table (2) Lunar month and terrestrial day

Period: Lunar Month T
Siderial: 27.321661 days = 655.71986 hours
Synodic: 29.53059 days

Period: Terrestrial day t
Siderial: 23 h, 56 min 4.0906 sec = 86164.0906 sec
Synodic: 24 hours = 86400 sec

The aim of this work is to determine the value of the greatest speed mentioned in the following relativistic Quranic verses. In these verses the sideral system should be used for both the lunar month and the terrestrial day as accurate measured periods (with respect to a distant apparently fixed star).

A New Relation in the Earth-Moon System: The length of the moons’ orbit L and the time t of one terrestrial day are correlated in a marvelous Quranic verse which describes a universal constant velocity of a certain cosmic affair as follows:

“GOD rules the cosmic affair from the heavens to the earth. Then this affair travels, to Him (i.e. through the whole universe) in one day, where the measure is one thousand years of your reckoning”(32:5)

The Quranic expression “of your reckoning” leaves no doubt as to our understanding of the year as the lunar year.

The verse begins with a reference to a certain “cosmic affair” which GOD creates and commands. This affair travels, permanently through the whole universe between the heavens and the Earth, so speedily that it crosses in ONE DAY a maximum distance in space equivalent to that which the moon passes during ONE THOUSAND LUNAR YEAR (i.e. during 12000 Sidereal months). The question which pause.; itself now is: what could this cosmic affair be? and what is its greatest velocity as expressed in this Quranic equation?.

To answer this question. The above Quranic verse has been understood** in terms of the following equation:

Distance crossed in vacuum by the universal cosmic affair in Osle sidereal day = length of 12000 revolutions of the moon around the earth.

.:. Ct = 12000 L .

where:

C is the velocity of the cosmic affair, t is the time interval of one terrestrial sidereal day defined as the time of one rotation of the earth. about its axis (relative to the stars). i.e. 23 hr, 56 min, 4.0906 sec = 86164.0906sec. )

L is the inertial distance which the moon covers in c-o revolution around the earth during one sidereal month i.e. L is the net length of the moon’s orbit due to its own geocentric motion, without the interference of its spiral motion caused by the earth’s revolution around the sun, i.e. _ is the lunar orbit length excluding the effect of the solar gravitational field on the measured value.

Let V is the measured average orbital velocity of the moon deduced from the average radius R of the lunar geocentric orbit as measured from an orbiting earth during its heliocentric motion)

.:. V=2 Pi *R/T…(2)

substituting R = 384264 km and T = the siderial lunar month = 655.71986 hr

.:. V= (2X3.l4l6x384264 )/ 655.71986= 3682.07 km/hr

This value is given in all text books of astronomy and is accepted by NASA.

Let @ (Fig. 1) is the angle traveled by the earth moon system around the sun during one sidereal month of period 27.321661 days. We can calculate @ if we take into consideration the period (365.25636 days of one heliocentric revolution (1 year) of the earth-moon system (Fig.l).

@ = 27.321661*360/365.25636= 26,92848

Thus @ is a characteristic constant of this system depending on uniform periods of the month and the year.

Since the presence of the sun changes the geometrical properties of space and time , we must screen out its gravitational effect on the earth moon system according to the validity condition of the second postulate of special relativity, i.e. we must only consider the lunar geocentric motion without the heliocentric motion of the earth-moon system. Thus a velocity component VO=V cosO representing the net orbital velocity of the moon as shown in fig. (1) is introduced for calculating the net length L of the lunar orbit assuming a stationary earth.

.:. L = V cos @ T … (3)

From equation (1) and (3) we get a new Quranic relation for the earth moon system:

Ct= 12000 V cos @ T…(4)

.:. C =12000 V cos @ T/t…(5)

substituting the sidereal values of the periods t and T from table (2), the NASA value of the measured orbital lunar velocity V = 3682.07 km/hr., and the calculated value of cos@ = cos 26.92848 = 0.89157, we get the velocity of the cosmic affair from eq. 5 as expressed in the Holy Quran.

C=12000 x 3682.07 x 0.89157 x 655.71986/86164.0906

.:. C = 299792.5 km/s

Referring to table (1) and the international value of C = 299792.458 km/s we find an extremely marvelous agreement. Thus we conclude that the cosmic affair, mentioned in the previous Quranic verse, is identical to LIGHT and all similar cosmic affairs traveling in vacuum with this maximum speed such as: all types of electro magnetic waves propagating between the heavens and the earth, the expected Gravitational waves spreading all over the universe, and all particles traveling in this cosmic greatest speed such as neutrinos.

Mathematics is by far not one of my stong points, but this evidence appears quite compelling. Perhaps someone with a good understanding of maths and physics could evaluate it?

For the record, I am not a Muslim.

[Dogface]

This “evidence” is not in the least bit compelling.

Psalm 90, verse 4:

For a thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.

In the Hebrew Bible, centuries before the Koran was written.

In other words, this “evidence” is typical of the lying crap that is foisted off onto us by fundies of any stripe.

And in any case, the Koran verse says “through the whole universe”. If this is the case, then the Koran says that “the whole universe” is a mere 1,000 light years across. This is an example of how the Koran utterly fails as a scientific document.

So, take it or leave it. It’s either the whole verse or none of it.

[jjimm]

Does this mean that the Holy Spirit only travels at the speed of light?

[El_Mariachi]

I read that to mean that a day of Allah is like 1000 years to a human.

[Beastal]

The Qu’ranic verse is talking about the speed of the “cosmic affair”, Dogface, and uses the lunar system of dating as the comparison, as was used by the Arabs of Muhammad’s time. The Biblical verse does not mention this.

Can we keep the arguements to the facts and figures, please.

[Beastal]

Ok, if we wanted to, we could interpret the verse in a million ways. But let’s interpret it as such that “cosmic affair” means light, ok?

[Grey]

I was under whelmed by the link’s statement that

“GOD is the ONE who created the night, the day, the sun, and the moon. Each one is traveling in an orbit with its own motion” (21:33).

Here an essential scientific fact is clearly stated, namely, the existence of the earth’s, sun’s and moon’s orbits; besides, a reference is made to the traveling of these celestial bodies in space with their own motion! A new concept had therefore been established in the Quran, hundreds of years before it was discovered by modern science(6-7)

It says nothing of the Earth’s orbit, simply that of night/day sun/moon. If you assume the sun orbits the earth, then day/night are the result. It says nothing of the Earth’s rotation or of the relative position of the sun and moon in relation to their orbits around the Earth. Or that of the Earth around them

As for the jab at “modern science”, the idea of orbits was not new (see Ptolemy), nor were heliocentric ideas new. Aristarchus (310-230BC) had the idea 1000 years before Allah felt up to sharing.

[Beastal]

Ok, for starters, can we please just keep to the “cosmic affair” verse?

Is there anyone here with sufficient knowledge in mathematics and physics to verify the author’s explanations?

[Kyla]

Note: I have nothing of real value to add, but this is one of my silly pet peeves.

It’s Qur’an.

[Beastal]

So it is.

Thank you, Kyla.

[Grey]

*Originally posted by Beastal *
**Ok, for starters, can we please just keep to the “cosmic affair” verse?

Is there anyone here with sufficient knowledge in mathematics and physics to verify the author’s explanations? **

Which part of “It says nothing of the Earth’s rotation or of the relative position of the sun and moon in relation to their orbits around the Earth. Or that of the Earth around them” appears to you to not deal with the issue at hand?

The premise of the work is that the earth goes around the sun and the moon goes around the earth. Did you notice that these ideas are not actually written in the Qur’an? They are placed into context by the author’s knowledge.

Colour me unimpressed.

[Beastal]

The verse begins with a reference to a certain “cosmic affair” which GOD creates and commands. This affair travels, permanently through the whole universe between the heavens and the Earth, so speedily that it crosses in ONE DAY a maximum distance in space equivalent to that which the moon passes during ONE THOUSAND LUNAR YEARS

I see no need for mention of the earth’s, moon’s, and sun’s relative orbits to each other, if we assume ‘one thousand years of your reckoning’ means ‘one thousand years of the moon’s travel’. Seeing as the Muslims of the time used a lunar calendar, this interpretation has hardly been plucked from nowhere. Even if you dismiss this interpretation, if the maths hold solid, do you not find it interesting that it gives us the exact speed of light?

[rjung]

A religious book that’s not scientifically accurate? Horrors! :eek:

So, um, how scientifically accurate is the Bible, anyway? Last I heard the Christian fundamentalists were insisting the universe was only 6,000 years old…

[sanja]

can’t the question (is qur’an/bible the word of god?) be answered without even delving into specifics?

that is to say, isn’t ‘word of god’ oxymoronic?

doesn’t god transcend reason/language?

language is inherently imperfect and mutable, and god is supposed to be perfect and immutable.

[apricot_syrup]

There were also a bunch of nutcakes who went through the Bible, plucking a letter here and a phoneme there and claiming that the Bible predicted all kinds of amazing things. The whole thing was later debunked.

If you look hard enough in a large enough pile of bullshit, you’ll find the occasional diamond. That by itself proves nothing.

[Grey]

*Originally posted by Beastal *
**I see no need for mention of the earth’s, moon’s, and sun’s relative orbits to each other, if we assume ‘one thousand years of your reckoning’ means ‘one thousand years of the moon’s travel’. Seeing as the Muslims of the time used a lunar calendar, this interpretation has hardly been plucked from nowhere. Even if you dismiss this interpretation, if the maths hold solid, do you not find it interesting that it gives us the exact speed of light? **

I’m sorry, God got the speed of light right but opted to make a mistake over the basic structure of the solar system? Do I understand you correctly?

Look, the premise is that the earth/moon system orbits the sun, but nowhere in the Qur’an verses mentioned does it say that the Earth moves. Now I’m not really up to fixing this zealot’s math right now, but I am willing to point out flaws.

[Grey]

Oh I should also point out that, assuming this whole Qur’an thing is right, the number of minutes in a day is growing and the moon orbit is expanding. Does this mean the speed of light is not a constant?

[Beastal]

Ok, is anywhere here willing to verify the mathematics involved, using the interpretation of ‘one thousand years of your reckoning’ as meaning ‘one thousand years of the moon’s travel’?

[Beastal]

anywhere = anyone.

[Grey]

Bunk and bunk