Well we’re arguing that you do not understand English. I do not need to know Arabic to pronounce English words. Just imagine high school algebra class!
“Koran” is a 400 year old English word.
“Alcoran” is a 900 year old English word derived from Medieval Latin.
Both have had more than enough time for pronunciation to shift and alter as all languages do. Their phonetics are tied to the language they are used in, not the language they were transliterated from.
I have already pointed out two English language references that specify the pronunciation of these words. Note that the English pronunciation need not match the Arabic pronunciation (or Qur’anic Arabic) you wish it too. There is no requirement for that.
I have also pointed out that the exotic spelling issue could’ve been easily solved with an approach you have not yet taken. Let me demonstrate:
Instead you have fallen back on protesting your good faith and qualifications in this regard without providing a shred of evidence. Unfortunately that is not good enough.
Probably. My reaction was a bit hasty. Be so kind to accept my apologies for that.
The first translation of the Koran into Latin was already started in 1142 in Toledo. This was an imperfect translation, representing the first Christian attempt to translate the book. Four centuries later in the midsts of some hysteria about the Ottoman campaigns in Austria/Hungary, this same translation was printed in Basel by Bibliander.
We are not discussing here the legitimacy of having an English word for Qur’an.
I was discussing the use of “ridiculous exotic spelling” to begin with. Nothing else.
Next, following up other posts which had nothing to do with that,
I pointed out to you that the “etymology” reference was incorrect (in the case of your second example) because of the simple fact that they give proof that they can’t even spell the Arabic word correctly.
I also commented on pronounciation and syllabication, being under the impression we were discussing a translating dictionary (I didn’t look attentively enough at the name of the dictionary you mentioned).
As an other member brought under my attention that they were refering to the English word, I corrected myself accordingly.
(Yet my question how an English speaking perqson pronounces Al Koran as “lk-rn” stands, doesn’t it?)
As for my credentials: I’m sorry, I can hardly post here my name and curriculum (or what do you have in mind) and I don’t think it is the purpose of a message board like this do do so either.
I gave the explanation how the Arabic word is written and pronounced.
If you know an other way to write and pronounce it, don’t hesitate to let me know because that represents a very interesting evolution in a dead language.
What I question is your claimed credentials, which you have yet to establish. Perhaps you are as much a doctor as I am a prince.
Here, maybe this will be easier. Why not list a few of the reference books in your office? Journals you subscribe to? Conferences you’ve attended? Surely you’re able to provide some circumstantial evidence to support your claim.
There is already some list of books who have a little place in my library posted on this very topic. If I have to list all of them, I’m busy for some weeks to come, and you wouldn’t even be able to understand their titles, since obviously they aren’t written in the English language, few exceptions like among others those I listed here.
Oh well yes: I have the English translation by Jonathan Rodgers of Wolfdietrich Fischer’s interesting “Grammatik des klassischen Arabisch”. Yet since I have the original, I didn’t buy the English version. It was a gift.
The same with the English version, edited by JM Cohan, of Hans Wehr’s " Arabisches Wörterbuch für die Schriftsprache der Gegenwart" including the “Supplement zum Arabischen Wörterbuch für die Schriftsprache der Gegenwart” and the further extensions.
Now what does this “prove”. Or what “proof” would you have if I make a lists of my whole library.
Absolutely nothing. The more since I have grammarbooks and dictionaries in a variety of languages to begin with.
I also have Excell for Dummies and Power Point for Dummies. In a French translation.
And no, so sorry, I don’t list any personal information which could lead to my identity on a website like this.
There is already some list of books who have a little place in my library posted on this very topic. If I bring it all on this board, I think the mods will start deleting these endless posts in order to protect the websites bandspace. And unless you have knowledge of a variety of languages you wouldn’t even be able to understand their titles. Since obviously they aren’t written in the English language, few exceptions like among others those I listed here.
Oh well yes: I have the English translation by Jonathan Rodgers of Wolfdietrich Fischer’s interesting “Grammatik des klassischen Arabisch”. Yet since I have the original, I didn’t buy the English version. It was a gift.
The same with the English version, edited by JM Cohan, of Hans Wehr’s " Arabisches Wörterbuch für die Schriftsprache der Gegenwart" including the “Supplement zum Arabischen Wörterbuch für die Schriftsprache der Gegenwart” and the further extensions.
Now what does this “prove”. Or what “proof” would you have if I post here the contenance of my whole library.
Absolutely nothing. The more since I have grammarbooks and dictionaries in a variety of languages to begin with.
I also have Excell for Dummies and Power Point for Dummies. In a French translation.
And no, so sorry, I don’t list any personal information which could lead to my identity on a website like this.
It’s the most commonly avaidable translation in the UK published by Penguin, as I understand it it’s one of the best translations avaidable. It’s not the annoted version (there’s also a paralell Arabic text version avaidable), so I either have to rely on my knowledge of Islamic history or look up references to fully understand the context of the verses. Certainly not light reading.
But both the English words “Koran” and “Qur’an” are pronounced the same way.
I don’t really see too much of a difference…I know “Qur’an” is preferred now, just like “Muhammed” is to “Mohammed”, but I don’t see why it’s a big deal if you spell it either way. Any time you transliterate a language, you have to make choices about spelling…sounds don’t match up exactly.
So, it seems to me that it’s not a big deal if it gets spelled Koran or Qur’an. They sound the same, and everyone knows what you mean, however you write it.