The Religious Right Is Dumb, And the Secular Left Is Paranoid

Politics & Elections
1

Speaking as a religious conservative (boo, hiss)…

I opposed Donald Trump from the start, for a host of reasons. Partly because of his personal scumminess, and partly because (to steal an apt quote from John Boehner), he isn’t a conservative and is barely a Republican. I proudly wore the #NeverTrump label, and voted for Evan McMullin (for all the good it did him).

Most religious conservatives weren’t as principled or choosy as I was, obviously. Some voted for him enthusiastically in the primaries. Most eventually held their noses and voted for him because the alternative seemed unimaginable. Both sets of religious conservatives told themselves (and TRIED unsuccessfully to convince me) that voting for Trump was essential, because he was sure to appoint Supreme Court justices who’ll overturn Obergfell and Roe vs. Wade.

Yeah. About that…

Trump is on record as being FINE with gay marriage and he won’t overturn it. In short, all LGBQT folks who were panicking can relax. You were working yourself into a frenzy over nothing. Of COURSE Trump is pro-gay! He’s a rich, liberal Manhattanite. Who do you think designed the interiors of all his gaudy, glitzy buildings? Who do you think catered all his penthouse parties? STRAIGHT Guys???

The Left should have known better than to fear Trump. and the Right should have known better than to think he was on their side. Trump never cared about gay marriage. The Religious Right has just gotten the first clue that they were scammed. And it won’t end there, because (drum roll):

Trump doesn’t care about abortion either!!! NOBODY ought to believe for a split second that Trump is truly opposed morally to abortion. I’d be willing to wager a man like Trump has caused (maybe even paid for) a few abortions himself.

And he will NOT go out of his way to appoint anti-abortion judges. MAYBE he’ll appoint a solid conservative to replace Nino Scalia, but that won’t change the court’s balance a lick- you’ll still have 4 liberals, 4 conservatives, and a wild card who veers left whenever it’s important (Anthony Kennedy, the most powerful man in America).

Trump won’t be so fastidious when it’s time to replace a liberal or a moderate. He likes the Democratic leadership in Congress much more than the Republican leadership, and will be delighted to cut deals with Schumer and Pelosi while thumbing his nose at Ryan and McConnell. The Supreme Court will NOT get more conservative under Trump.

Which means liberals will develop a Strange New Respect for The Donald.

And religious conservatives? Well, they will realize far too late that they sold their souls for a mess of pottage. But unlike poor Esau, they won’t even get the pottage! They gave up their morals in hopes of getting a conservative Supreme Court, and they WON’T even get THAT!

They will be reminded of what the demon said in C.S. Lewis’ “The Screwtape Letters.”

"To get a man’s soul and give him NOTHING in return – that is what really gladdens Our Father’s heart.”

2

Trump might not appoint a conservative judge to the Supreme Court.

Hillary certainly would not. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

Regards,
Shodan

3

Actions speak louder than words. How many moderate to liberate people do you see being discussed for cabinet and other high level appointments? Instead you see people like Steve Bannon.

Climate change (not something like gay rights) is a major issue which makes lots of us paranoid. It’s very clear that Trump is going to be extremely damaging with regards to this.

4

I certainly hope you’re right.

Although I have my doubts about the Evangelicals realizing they’ve been had; self-reflection is not a quality I’ve ever seen them demonstrate.

5

Here is why those of us on the left are paranoid

Mass deportations
Trumps lack of respect for his critics or the rule of law
Trump conning and robbing people who trusted him
Trumps history of a using the legal system to terrorize, intimidate and bankrupt his critics
Trump being in charge of the military and nukes
Paul Ryan designing the budget and Trump blindly signing it
Trump triggering a trade war that causes a recession or other economic calamity.
Trump follows through with his claims to ban or register Muslims
Trump refuses to accept defeat if he loses reelection in 2020.
Trumps win has emboldened and made mainstream the worst aspects of humanity

Those aren’t addressed in the op. This isn’t just about gay marriage and abortion. Not even close.

6

Trump published lists of his prospective Supreme Court nominees. They were given to him by the Heritage Foundation, and they range from the Very Conservative to the Very, Very Conservative.

Any dreams that he’d appoint a moderate are pure fantasy. The man will elevate “Judicial Activism” to a level never before seen in this country. Even FDR’s court packing (which, after all, didn’t happen) will pale into insignificance.

7

You do realize, I hope, that after filling Scalia’s seat, he has to wait for another Jurist to move on before he can actually appoint a second?

8

Says who?

:stuck_out_tongue:

9

I’ve seen the decor that Trump likes, and the food that he eats. I’m pretty sure no gay people were involved in either.

More seriously, though, lots of bigots are okay with having the people they are bigoted against work for them. Lots of club owners really wanted Louis Armstrong to play their clubs. They still made him enter through the back door.

That being said, I agree, Trump’s probably not personally a homophobe. When he’s looking for SC picks, I’m pretty sure “Will over turn SSM,” will not be on his agenda. On the other hand, I don’t think, “Will uphold SSM,” will be on his agenda, either. We can already see the sort of people he’s filling his administration with, and he’s pretty short on “fiscally conservative, socially liberal” folks. Hell, look at his VP. Trump may not be personally interested in repealing gay rights, but he’s plenty happy working closely with people who do, and that doesn’t fill me with a whole lot of hope for his SC picks. And that’s assuming he’s engaged enough in the job to actually pay attention to the SC picks. I think it’s more likely he’s going to delegate it, and the choices there are seriously grim.

Of course, there’s also the fact that the president doesn’t write laws, congress does. And right now, congress is pretty terrifying to gays, too. If congress is balking at something Trump wants, and they come to him and say, “We’ll give on your bill, if you’ll sign off on our “family values” bill,” do you really think Trump’s going to stand up for us? Of course not. The only personal benefit there for Trump is in taking the deal, and I don’t think Trump has any motives at all beyond, “What’s best for me?”

10

Y’know, someone may be paranoid yet it still be true that they are out to get him.

The big issue so far for the fear is that Donald seems perfectly happy to shape an incoming team of rightwing hardliners and heretofore loose cannon of the kind that, as **Miller **points out, he may mollify with allowing them to play with “social” rightwing initiatives while letting him have his not-really-conservative-republican politicoeconomic ways. Not so much that he will act against the vulnerable groups, but that he may not stand in the way of those who would, if they otherwise support his priorities, Og knows what they may be.

OTOH knowing his reputation for cashing in his side of the deal and then leaving the other partner hanging out to dry, who knows…

11

Trump stooges a lot, it’s hard to take anything seriously that a guy says or does who once appeared in WWE seriously.

12

Of all the issues listed here, I am least worried about gay marriage. I do not see how the Supreme Court pick could overturn the gay marriage ruling. I do not see how a law could be passed to end gay marriage that would be upheld by the court in its current configuration plus Trump’s pick.

In the short term I am only concerned about the mainstreaming of the view that various groups of people in our society are to be treated as 2nd class citizens or as non-citizens who require a little extra scrutiny to determine if they need to be deported. Thus far, a rise in hate crimes is the only consequence of his victory. In other words, I know this is happening and I know it will continue.

In the long term, especially if he fails at his goals and comes under a constant stream of criticism for his failures, I worry about how he might use military, the justice department, homeland security, aggressive deportations, and endless litigation to silence his critics and divert our attention elsewhere.

I actually fear how he might use these things so much that I hope he is very successful in changing trade deals and getting unskilled manufacturing back to the Rust Belt. I want him to be able to brag for a few years and then maybe in 2020 the 2nd coming of Barack Obama comes and ends this nightmare where I rationally believe the best case scenario is “not too many Muslims are assaulted”.

13

Hate crimes and just plain incidents of bigotry are spiking and he really does grab women by the pussy. Just like he said.

14

The issue probably won’t be whether Trump personally wants to ban abortions and/or same-sex marriages. The question is whether he’ll do anything to oppose the people who are committed to banning them. As you point out, Trump doesn’t care about these issues.

Trump doesn’t have to lift a finger. He just has to stand by while other people act.

15

I have to say that right off the bat, your “(boo, hiss)” might have seemed funny, but it’s really well-poisoning and offputting. Anyway, to your argument…

I can understand the single-issue voter’s motivation, i.e. “abortion is the single most important issue to me, so I will vote for the candidate who I think is more likely to appoint SCOTUS justices that will (uphold abortion rights)/(sustain abortion laws).” It’s not an attitude I can share, but if that’s how a person wants to prioritize their voting considerations, so be it.

Similarly, I can picture a voter for whom the most important issue is “gay marriage” or “access to guns”, and votes accordingly for the candidate most likely to match their views and appoint justices who do the same.

I’m not sure, however, how much comfort and confidence one can have in Trump’s indifference to an issue (on the assumption that he at least won’t make things worse, from the voter’s perspective), because Trump was not the only winner in 2016 - the Republicans control Congress, put there in part (I think) by many voters who have as much a fantasy image of them as they do of Trump, i.e. that Republicans (and Trump) will get them their jobs back.

Trump may well be a neutral president on the issues of abortion and gay marriage, in the sense that he won’t act to restrict or expand access to either, but I don’t see how that leads to liberals developing respect for him - rather, just relief that he didn’t make things worse, and there is always a segment of the American population who would eagerly and gladly make things worse if they could.

If you describe yourself as someone who uses your religion to guide you in political matters, then by definition an American liberal can’t count on you to be politically rational, because religion is inherently irrational. The paranoia is justified. Don’t expect liberal relaxation anytime soon - you’re not really presenting a posture that encourages it.

16

It’s not clear if Trump has any true positions he’s willing to fight for. Some who know him have said he parrots the person he talked to last. I expect him to rubber stamp whatever his conservative handlers give him. The left accused GWB of being a puppet of Cheney and PNAC. Compared to Trump, GWB may be a real boy.

17

I’m willing to hazard that he’s extremely pro-Trump.

18

As I posted in another thread, what if orange slurpee does something I would like? Like tax every church in the nation? “You know what folks? Fortune tellers pay property taxes, and the Catholics can have money. It’s true, the best people tell me this. St. Patrick Peter Church in Manhattan has paid less property taxes than me…” Still wouldn’t support it coming from him, following example of recent GOP reps. :smiley:

I expect this same bullshit rhetoric at a State Of the Union address. And BTW, has anyone thought about how this failure would even address the Union? I think that might be the day he quits, knowing he has to address other rich people who have no interest in investing in him.

19

Will everybody get a share?

20

Hell, no. All goes to Der Donald. :wink: