The Repeal of Obamacare/ACA: Step-bystep, Inch-by-inch

[Dewey_Finn]

He’s repeatedly told us that he’s going to repeal and replace it, perhaps even on the same day, with something much better. I look forward to hearing the details of his improved plan. Perhaps he can actually propose something better but I’m skeptical, just because of the competing interests involved.

[doorhinge]

@Tee

What if a turkey dinner cost more than my paycheck and a gallon of milk was $34.99? You tell me.

You should let other people shop for you. Everyone seems to be ripping you off. just sayin’

[Chimera]

Ok, this is absolute fantasy land, but I would love it if Trump introduced a Single Payer plan. If only to see the look on Republican faces.
Yeah, Republicans are going to sell the “right” to buy insurance or not as some kind of freedom thing. “You get to CHOOSE whether you want to buy it or not!” and then do everything possible to get the system back into not having to pay out for actual sick people.

[up_the_junction]

@Dewey_Finn

He’s repeatedly told us that he’s going to repeal and replace it, perhaps even on the same day, with something much better. I look forward to hearing the details of his improved plan. Perhaps he can actually propose something better but I’m skeptical, just because of the competing interests involved.

Yep, this seems a realistic position. Obamacare is just a label for reform.

At best, it felt like a step - the best that could be achieved back then, when there all those town hall meetings about how it was socialist and unamerican. Maybe the job of Obamacare was to introduce greater reality into a debate that had been successfully propagandised for 5 decades.

Maybe Obamacare begat Sanders in some sense - that there wasn’t too much to be frighten of, that reds were’t going to run over the White House lawn.

Maybe the new reality rolls on now, or in 4 years. But it will, as the older propagandised generations fade away.

[doorhinge]

@Broomstick

Excuse me. You seem to have mistaken me for some kind of Nixon supporter. I am not, and never have been, a fan of Mr. Nixon. I think he was loathsome and creepy. Nonetheless, he did in deed support something that I myself favor. Merely because I approved of one thing he attempted does not mean I support anything else or anything else he did.

You’re excused. If Nixon and Broomstick favored the idea, why isn’t it the law of the land? What did you guys miss? What did you guys do wrong? Maybe you needed to convince more voters that it was a really great idea?

[elucidator]

Convinced three million more voters to vote for Hillary, just how much of a handicap do you guys need?

[doorhinge]

@elucidator

Convinced three million more voters to vote for Hillary, just how much of a handicap do you guys need?

You can’t even get that number correct. :smack: How can anyone expect you to understand how Presidential elections are decided in the U.S.A., or the Democrat Party primary?

[Blalron]

@doorhinge

You can’t even get that number correct. :smack: How can anyone expect you to understand how Presidential elections are decided in the U.S.A., or the Democrat Party primary?

It’s the Democratic Party. Not the “Democrat Party.”

[mhendo]

This is an interesting development:

U.S. judge finds that Aetna misled the public about its reasons for quitting Obamacare

Aetna claimed this summer that it was pulling out of all but four of the 15 states where it was providing Obamacare individual insurance because of a business decision — it was simply losing too much money on the Obamacare exchanges.

Now a federal judge has ruled that that was a rank falsehood. In fact, says Judge John D. Bates, Aetna made its decision at least partially in response to a federal antitrust lawsuit blocking its proposed $37-billion merger with Humana. Aetna threatened federal officials with the pullout before the lawsuit was filed, and followed through on its threat once it was filed. Bates made the observations in the course of a ruling he issued Monday blocking the merger.

Aetna executives had moved heaven and earth to conceal their decision-making process from the court, in part by discussing the matter on the phone rather than in emails, and by shielding what did get put in writing with the cloak of attorney-client privilege, a practice Bates found came close to “malfeasance.”

There’s much more. It’s really worth reading the whole piece.

[jasg]

Read it earlier today and agree.

I’d like to think that this will demonstrate how for-profit healthcare / insurance is bad for the public but instead it will be spun as government intrusion on free markets…

[ThelmaLou]

The G.O.P. Campaign to Repeal Obamacare Hits a Wall
https://nyti.ms/2k0FCxC

WASHINGTON — Congress’s rush to dismantle the Affordable Care Act, once seemingly unstoppable, is flagging badly as Republicans struggle to come up with a replacement and a key senator has declared that the effort is more a repair job than a demolition.

“It is more accurate to say ‘repair Obamacare,’” Senator Lamar Alexander, Republican of Tennessee and chairman of the Senate health committee, said this week. “We can repair the individual market, and that is a good place to start.”

The struggles and false starts have injected more uncertainty into insurance markets that thrive on stability. Republican leaders who once saw a health law repeal as a quick first strike in the Trump era now must at least consider a worst case: unable to move forward with comprehensive health legislation, even as the uncertainty that they helped foster rattles consumers and insurers.
…

With the official end on Tuesday of what was supposed to be its final open enrollment season, the Affordable Care Act is looking more resilient than it seemed just a month ago. …

To which I say, “HA! You m.f. losers, you bitched about this for years, and now you’re figuring out that it needs tuning up, improving, not slash and burn. And you know what, even if you rename it, it will still be Obama’s legacy.”

Get. A. Fucking. Clue. :mad:

[JohnT]

Well, the AARP isn’t too happy with GOP health care “reform” plans. That might matter.

[septimus]

A lot of posts in this thread since I last skimmed it. A lot of intelligence — and stupidity — is on display. Let me add my own comments.

@Tee

What if a turkey dinner cost more than my paycheck and a gallon of milk was $34.99? You tell me.

People trying to understand the costs of health care should focus on one simple fact: Money doesn’t just disappear. If you spend $10,000 for your health insurance (or some large group of people spends $10 billion) that money doesn’t get burned in a bonfire, or get magically teleported to a black hole. The money goes somewhere.

Many of the people complaining fail to grasp this simple arithmetic fact. Complain, if you wish, about insurance company or pharmaceutical profits. Complain about doctors’ fees. Complain that your millionaire life style is affected by higher taxes or premiums to help indigent children. Direct your anger or plans for reform against the corporate profiteers … or, if you insist, against the Marxist belief that poor Americans should have their diseases treated; But don’t direct them against an abstract “Obamacare,” while pretending not to know that the money doesn’t just disappear.

Yet listening to ignorant prattle, many Americans seem to think that Obama has a secret Swiss account into which billions of Obamacare dollars have been pilfered.

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@Euphonious_Polemic

It’s not my opinion that the US has worse health outcomes than many countries with single payer systems. That is a fact.

It is not my opinion that the US spends far more per capita on healthcare than other countries with single payer systems. This is a fact.

It is not my opinion that doctors spend far less time and money recovering payments from insurers in countries with single payer systems compared to doctors in the United States dealing with multiple (or even a single) insurer. This is a fact.

It is not my opinion that private insurance companies in the United States operate for profit, and seek to maximize that profit, therefore taking dollars out of what is actually spent on healthcare services. This is a fact.

It is not my opinion that prior to the ACA, many Americans were uninsured, and therefore had to rely on emergency room treatments at a very high cost - costs which were ultimately passed along to the consumers with insurance. This is a fact.

A year ago, or even a month ago, I’d have agreed with every word of this post.

But Euphonious Polemic ignores the new reality. His are just Facts. In the Brave New Era, we are guided by #Alternate_Facts.

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@elucidator

Nobody doubts your intelligence, John, Heaven knows you’re reminded us often enough. But what about those who aren’t so smart? Is it the responsibility of the smart man to protect the less gifted? Or are the dummies our natural prey? Its wrong to take someones money by fear or violence, but outsmarting them is totally OK?

Obamacare’s “position” is that these plans are wrong, they are theft, they present the illusion of security but without substance. Are they right, then? Those ads on TV that promise insurance security to the old and infirm, and save them oodles of money, are they telling the strict truth? Have they discovered some actuarial miracle that renders the arithmetic null and void? …

I loved this post! John certainly does like to remind us how smart he is; let’s see if he’s smart enough to learn something about himself.

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@OldOlds

I’m honestly not sure what you mean, or what $500 screws even means.

I’ve been in pharma R&D and manufacturing for over 20 years. I can tell you exactly where the money goes. And yes, new drugs are insanely profitable (when they sell; I have in fact been involved with drugs that had great margins but were market failures).

It is extremely complicated, but FDA regulation and QA/QC is not really the problem. I know that the industry likes to say they are, but here where my employer doesn’t know my name I’ll call bullshit…
FDA requirements are crucial. Without them we have shown that we will take shortcuts…
As someone in the belly of the beast, and who could never say this publicly as a representative of his employer, DO NOT rail against the FDA. We’re screwing you in very behind the scenes ways and then BLAMING the FDA.

Thank you very much, OldOlds for giving us an inside perspective on the pharmaceutical industry.

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@Weisshund

Now whose stupidity is on display
You assume i would let you do heart surgery on me, or half kill me to try to cure cancer and what? make me sick as hell to die anyways when i could have made better use of the functional time i had left to begin with?..
What the hell is with all the assuming here? I say red, you assume i include blue yellow and green too, no i said red and only red i meant red and nothing else, is that an impossible concept to grasp?

I loved this post!! It sheds much light on the quality of “thinking” that led to the November Electoral Tragedy. Weisshund brags that he only wants health insurance to pay for stitching up self-inflicted holes! :eek:
I do hope he comes back and reports on the cost of insurance compared with paying doctors’ stitching fees himself … or buying his own thread and needles. :smack:

Please tell us you’re a writer for The Onion, Weisshund. Especially amusing was your insight that vaginal exams was the best part of your insurance!

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@ThelmaLou

New HHS Secretary Price not privy to Trump’s Obamacare replacement plan… that way he can’t be asked about it during confirmation hearings. :smack:
Cite

Price got a plan, Trump got a plan, Congress gonna get a plan one of these days. All God’s chillun got a plan… Let’s make sure the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is up to. Do these clowns have any idea how stupid this makes them look?? :rolleyes:

So the Health chief is left in dark about health plans. Wow — but typical for our Brave New Era. As for “how stupid this makes them look” ? The voters showed in November that stupidity is what they wanted.

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@mhendo

This is an interesting development:
U.S. judge finds that Aetna misled the public about its reasons for quitting Obamacare
There’s much more. It’s really worth reading the whole piece.

Thanks for the link, mhendo. But, again, Aetna and those defending profiteering are entitled to their own #Alternate_Facts.

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@doorhinge

Even after it was recommended by Dick “I am not a crook” Nixon? Shocking.

A lovely non sequitur from Doper D’Orange, who must be delighted that a man of his color is in the White House now.

[ElvisL1ves]

The battle cry, both of and to the ignorant, used to be “Repeal and replace!”. Then it was just “Repeal!”. Now that they have been given new, and seemingly unwanted, responsibility for the health care issue, it has become “Repair”, and even “Rebuild”. :rolleyes:

Isn’t that all just so precious?

[ThelmaLou]

@ElvisL1ves

The battle cry, both of and to the ignorant, used to be “Repeal and replace!”. Then it was just “Repeal!”. Now that they have been given new, and seemingly unwanted, responsibility for the health care issue, it has become “Repair”, and even “Rebuild”. :rolleyes:

Isn’t that all just so precious?

Those hypocritical, two-faced, lying, incompetent fuckers make me want to throw up. On them.

When it is finally repaired, whatever they rename it, we liberals need to keep calling it “Obamacare.”

[GIGObuster]

@ElvisL1ves

The battle cry, both of and to the ignorant, used to be “Repeal and replace!”. Then it was just “Repeal!”. Now that they have been given new, and seemingly unwanted, responsibility for the health care issue, it has become “Repair”, and even “Rebuild”. :rolleyes:

Isn’t that all just so precious?

Other Republicans, like Sen. Rob Portman, downplayed the significance of the word “repair” on Thursday and insisted that the party’s overarching goal remains the same.
“I use ‘fix,’ I use ‘repair,’ I use ‘replace.’ I think they all mean the same thing to me,” Portman said.

[QUOTE= Alice in Wonderland]
‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’
[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

[Chimera]

I hope the garage replaces Portman’s car with a 1970 Ford Pinto next time he needs service.

“eh, repair, replace, what’s the difference.”

[Leaper]

@GIGObuster

:rolleyes:

That’s from Through the Looking Glass, you illiterate oaf.

[GIGObuster]

@Leaper

That’s from Through the Looking Glass, you illiterate oaf.

Now you hush up…

Yeah you are correct, I do fall for the memory that mixes those two as both were written by Carrol and Alice is still the main character. And a lot of the blame goes for a lot of popular media that does indeed make adaptations where characters from “Through a looking glass” are made to appear in wonderland.

Through the Looking-Glass

[SteveG1]

@ElvisL1ves

The battle cry, both of and to the ignorant, used to be “Repeal and replace!”. Then it was just “Repeal!”. Now that they have been given new, and seemingly unwanted, responsibility for the health care issue, it has become “Repair”, and even “Rebuild”. :rolleyes:

Isn’t that all just so precious?

And it’s ONLY because they are afraid of political blowback… because they were too obvious and got caught (How obvious do ya have to be???)

SOME voters supported all this, UNTIL they found out it was THEIR so called “handout” that was on the line. Until that point, it was “Fuck the other guy”.

But you are being too generous in calling them “ignorant”. Ignorance is simply not knowing. It is more accurate to call them selfish and stupid and vindictive.