What was so great about the Rings (3 for the Elves, 7 for the Dwarves, and 9 for the Men)?
I understand they were rings of Power, but since they were being made by people no more powerful than themselves, why would the Elves need them? What was the advantage of wearing one of the Rings?
Also, why didn’t the Hobbits get any rings?
A) Hobbits did get rings: Hobbits are just short humans (IE they’re part of the race of Man, not a seperate creation like the Dwarfs or Elves, so the Nine were “theirs” too.)
B) Others will answer this better but my understanding is: Elves wanted to keep magic in the world. Despite their best efforts, nonetheless the magic was fading. This was ok, as it was part of God’s plan. The three elven rings would allow the elves to preserve the world (in defiance of God’s plan…hence even the relatively benign 3 elven rings were sources of corruption). If you’re asking what they did, they essentially were amplifiers: they boosted whatever power you had tremendously, while corrupting you.
The whole bit with Galadrial and the incredibly powerful “I have passed the test” thing was Galadrial saying “Ok, it’s time to stop defying God. I’ll head back home and let the world take it’s proper course.”
Fenris
I wouldn’t exactly say that the Three were in defiance of God’s plan… Even if it were His plan for magic to diminish in the World (which is not quite clear in the books), the Elves certainly didn’t know that. They knew that magic was fading, but they probably suspected that it was due to the actions of Morgoth and his flunkies. Galadriel was spiting the Powers somewhat, though, by not accepting their pardon and returning to the West.
The prime power of the Three was to “stave off the weariness of the World”, which is the main reason that Rivendell and Lothlorien seemed so untouched by time. Gandalf used his to “rekindle hearts which had grown cold”. They probably also had other powers, but they’re never made explicit.
Depending on what sources you go by, Hobbits were probably considered “human”, but even without that, there’s no special need for them to have Rings. The Ents didn’t have them, either, nor did any of the sentient beasts. Probably Sauron would have tried corrupting the Hobbits as well, had he known of them.
And as for their power, remember also that Sauron with his ring was more powerful than he was before he made it. A Ring of Power can serve as a focus of sorts, enabling its wearer to use his or her own power more effectively. Also, the Three were not worn by their maker; it’s quite plausible that each of them has some measure of Celebrimbor’s power in them, which the wielders could tap into.
Why did Sauron not try to corrupt the Ents? I mean, they seemed rather powerful, if a little slow, when ‘riled up’.
Also, I thought Sauron knew of the existance of the Hobbits (he saw everything, didn’t he?), but disregarded them as irrelevant. Am I just horribly wrong?
I imagine he knew of their existence peripherally but obviously afforded them no military significance and hence did not try to convert them to his cause.
Ultimately though he does get word of the hobbits, namely our good friend Mr Baggins via another hobbit, albeit an old and evil one and sends his Ringwraiths out to get him.
As for the ents, I cant see how Sauron would try and corrup them, the ents seemed somewhat long lived creatures, some could be evil in a way (we hear much mention of other wild forests and there is that evil willow that tries to eat Sam before they meet Tom Bombadil)but it seems unlikely they could be hired into your typical Evil Lord of Darkness’ Hord with a few gold pieces . However my feeling is that Sauron has no need to try and corrupt the ents, they are simply not worth it and he already has as many orcs as he can breed as well as Trolls which were made by him, as evil mockeries of ents, in the same way orcs are evil versions of elves.
Elves are makers, and builders. It is their nature, especially the Noldor. They just don’t like leaving things the way they find them. The Noldor made gems by the myriads in Aman, when they came there. The Teleri, who were given many of them, strew them about the beaches of the undying lands, thinking them beautiful, and wanting to make the land more beautiful.
But the Noldor were proud, and sought to make things beyond their own reach into things they could hold, and control. The most egregious example of this was Feanor, who took the light of the two trees of Aman, and blended them, and captured them in the Silmarils. The nature of such things is fraught with doom, in the world of J. R. R. Tolkien. Everyone who touched the Silmarils was either killed, or maimed as a direct result, except the few who were utterly banished from the world, to carry them.
The rings were yet another foray into the realm of power taken by the elves after Morgoth was banished from the world. They were encouraged in this by Sauron. It was not said that the nine, the seven and the three were the only rings of power ever made, only that they were the greatest, and Sauron made the one to bind them to his will. But even Sauron was touched by the peril that comes to those who use device and artifice to reach beyond themselves. He must give his own power into the ring, to make it strong enough to bind the lesser rings. Then he is bound to the ring, as much as any of the lesser beings were.
Why do it? To gain stature, and power in the world. The rings granted great enhancement to the way a wearer was perceived by friend or foe. In the case of the three, it also gave the wearer the ability to preserve and protect those who were close and places near at hand. Healing and preservation were benign intentions of Celebrimbor. The nine gave long existence, but only a pseudo life. They gave great power to dominate the hearts of masses of other beings, with fear, and despair. The rings given to the dwarves enhanced their already strong abilities over rock and stone, and metal in making mighty weapons, and armor, and jewelry. But the rings were still tools of power, and had in them the doom of those who seek power.
By the desire for greater power than was native to them men became enslaved to the rings, and through the rings, made at first pawns to the plans of Sauron, and finally slaves to his will. Dwarves were not easily subjected to control, but greed and selfishness engendered in them did great harm to their people. Hobbits were of no interest to either Elves, or Sauron in the second age, when the rings were made. The nine were not made for men, but were given to men by Sauron. The rings were probably each made for the elf that created them, and each intended to enhance that elf’s power in the world. Those elves were unable or were unwilling to keep their rings.
It is interesting to note that very few of the Valar are associated with objects of any sort. There are no great weapons of the Valar, or Crowns, or thrones. The power of the Valar is inherent in themselves, in their voices, or their senses. Even the Maiar tend to do things without props, as Melian protected the Hidden Realm of Doriath with a veil of confusion and misdirection, rather than a physical barrier. Morgoth, on the other hand built towers, and dungeons, and wielded a hammer. He desired the Silmarils, and put them into a crown.
Tris
The Wizards did have their staffs. They seemed to be pretty important.
Perhaps this innate ability is the reason for objects of power. By making creatures with different levels of power and by, apparently, ordering existence according to such power, didn’t Eru create conditions that would encourage creation of said objects?
IIRC, Morgoth was envious of other, more powerful Valar. His servants, by creating tools to enhance their own abilities, enhance their status in the pantheon. Feanor, by creating devices, enhances the standing of himself and other Noldor. Sauron “sells” rings to the willing punters - humans, dwarves, elves - as means of increasing their status and power.
In other words, by creating an unequal society, based on innate power, Eru also created the seeds of envy and lust for power. Perhaps Morgoth & Sauron should be seen as revolutionaries, trying to overthrow the established, unfair order in favour of a more meritocratic society where individuals could shake off the restraints imposed by birth into one race or another and progress upwards in the power stakes based on ability alone?
No. ALL the Rings of Power, except the One, were made by the Elves for the Elves. They were not made for Men or Dwarves or Hobbits or Orks or anyone else. Elves made them (with an assist from Annatar) for their own (ultimately selfish) purposes. No one else was intended to use or have them*. Only when Sauron failed in his attempt to control the Elves through the Rings with the One, and was able to capture many of the Rings, and to pervert them, did he pass them out to Men and Dwarves.
The chief power of ALL the Rings was to prevent or retard decay and preserve that which was desired. ALL the Rings enhanced a the wearers natural powers. The Rings had other (primarily unstated) powers such as invisibility (except the Three) as well as making the invisible world visible.
For reference I recommend reading ‘Of the Rings of Power’ in the Silmarillion, The Council of Elrond chapter of LotR, and Letter 131.
The Nine and the Seven were made with Sauron’s aid. What was ultimately accomplished with them was much different than what was done with the Three.The Nine and the Seven had a corrupting influence on their possessors. The Three,which were made by Celebrimbor alone,did not have an evil effect on their wearers,and truly did “preserve all things unstained”.
The making of the Rings was not in origin the idea of the Elves. Sauron was the guiding influence,and the seeming “good” qualities of the Nine and the Seven were illusory.
These Rings appealed to those who wanted power beyond the measure of their kind. Since Sauron had a hand in their making,they could not have had a truly noble purpose.
Sauron may have had the idea of dominating Men and Dwarves with the Rings,as well as the Elves,when he first came to Eregion. It just strikes me that the Nine gave to Men what they most desired:unending life. Three of the Ringwraiths were Númenóreans,members of a race which attacked Valinor hoping to obtain immortality. Why would the Nine confer unending life if they were intended for Elves?
They did the same thing for both, but it worked differently. Presumably, the Nine also “staved off the weariness of the World”, to which Elves and Men are both subject (in different ways). With an elven bearer, the Nine would probably have functioned similarly to the Three, but with human bearers, they didn’t quite work right. The kings’ bodies still wasted away, as human bodies must, but their spirits did not leave the World.
There are a few artifacts of the Valar, mostly associated with Aule: There is the chain Angainu he forged to bind Morgoth, the vessels of the Sun and the Moon, and his tools (forge and hammer). There’s also the horn of Ulmo, the blue robe of Manwe, and a few others. Melkor and Sauron were not acting to “equal out the balance of power”, since originally, Melkor was the mightiest of the Valar, and Sauron likewise mightiest of the Maiar. They didn’t want their fair slice of the pie, they wanted the whole thing.
Is there any chance of Morgoth escaping his prison? Or did they in fact kill him and I forgot?
They banished him out of Middle Earth (presumably to “outer space”), IIRC.
On the one hand, it’s said that Morgoth cannot escape, but on the other, it is said that at the End of Days there will be a great battle where he will be slain. I’m not sure why that would be necessary, if he can’t escape.
As I recall Morgoth was banished into the Void my the Valar, a term that seems to describe the unihabited regions of the universe.
My friend and I got into an argument over whether he could escape from his prison. I pointed out that if he couldn’t, why would the Valar set some guards to keep an eye on him? Also when Sauron was among the Númenorians he persuaded them to conquer Valinor and rescue the Dark Lord (or something like that–I don’t have the book at hand). So it seems to me that its possible for him to break out and wreck havoc once again.
Speaker, Ents were corrupted to create Trolls, much as Elves were corrupted to create Orcs.
Another question or two then. Is Morgoth supposed to be defeated by Men, or the Valar, again? Also, why did the dwarves give up their rings so easily? You hear nearly nothing about the Dwarf-rings…
Another question or two then. Is Morgoth supposed to be defeated by Men, or the Valar, again? Also, why did the dwarves give up their rings so easily? You hear nearly nothing about the Dwarf-rings…
I think this information is in Letters, but I don’t have it to hand, but Morgoth will return at some point and the Last Battle will be fought (Dagor Dagorath?). All the Elves and all Men who have ever lived will fight, and Morgoth will be slain by Beren and Turin.
This apparently is a prophecy of Mandos, although I’m pretty sure it is not referenced in the Silmarillion itself.
OK, I did a little research for a change and my previous post is not entirely accurate. This quote forms part of the History of Middle Earth series, and there have been many discussions on the Tolkien newsgroups whether this stuff is canon or not. Hope this isn’t too much to quote:
I like the redemption of Turin here, but alas it seems likely that Professor T was turning away from this towards the end of his life.