The thread is requesting strategy suggestions for how to defeat Trump in 2020 and I made that observation in good faith.
For my part I’m looking forward to you doubling down because I know you’re mentally incapable of doing otherwise.
I would suggest that Trump would prefer a red ribbon on his gift wrapped election.
This is correct. Trump has nothing but contempt for his supporters, but he keeps it thinly veiled. The trick to beating Trump is to come up with even stinkier bullshit than he does, and they will be attracted to that, instead–(that’s how flies are). It won’t be easy, though.
Lemme steelman this.
Ignoring for the moment that the left is, in fact, superior (c’mon, join us - it’s fun to be on the side that didn’t elect Donald “who knew international diplomacy was this hard” Trump president), to the degree that this is accurate it’s that we need to allow Trump supporters a line of retreat. For them to say “maybe I was wrong” without facing quite as intense mockery. If you think someone is super wrong, and want them to change their mind, your response to them moving in the right direction should not be, “D’oi, what the fuck did you think you idiot?” Because that just makes them want to dig their heels in.
That said, I’m not quite sure how to communicate just how fucking abysmal the Trump administration has been and continues to be without sounding insulting or superior. Because it’s really fucking bad. Any advice on that one, Projammer? Like, upthread, it apparently had to be explained that “I know he’s lying to me, so I can trust him” is bad logic, and it’s really hard to do that without talking down to someone. How would you go about making that point without sounding like an asshole?
Excellent point, BPC. As hard as it is to do, I guess it means starting any conversation with a Trump voter with “I can understand why you voted for Trump…,” then mention maybe three reasons, without irony or disdain, using words that avoid making the reasons sound like the bullshit they are. Maybe something about rising health insurance premiums under [compromised from the start, but don’t mention that] Obamacare; the lack of a workable, sustainable immigration system [when stated in these general terms, we can ALL agree]; and the need for a self-described deal-maker in the White House. Then ask them if Trump has delivered on any of these things. For the deal-making, focus on the the counterproductive Helsinki summit and the so-far unproductive Singapore one, and mention how reneging on the Iran deal (and others) has made us less trustworthy in the world, and thus more difficult to secure future deals.
I would avoid any mention of economic issues, even though this administration has clearly injected a bit of short-term boost to the Obama-era (and natural cycle) wave of improvement, at the expense of long-term strength.
The key is not to veer off into hysterical insults no matter how tempting it is. That’s more of a problem online than in person usually but it matters in all venues. You’ll rarely succeed, but at least you won’t be inspiring them to make sure they go out and vote and pick up a few of their friends on the way to the polls. While a non-vote isn’t a vote for your candidate, it also isn’t a vote for Trump.
I don’t think anyone will argue that Trump voters were pissed off at the time. Don’t keep taking every opportunity to remind them why they were pissed.
People question why the polls were so wrong. Would you honestly answer a question if you knew you were going to be mocked for your response?
What’s your favorite ice cream?
Orange Sherbert.
Oh my God! Are you stupid? That’s disgusting! And not even ice cream! You should just go kill yourself!
If a pollster mocks someone they’re polling for one of their answers, they’re doing it wrong.
The pollster usually isn’t the first person asking the question. By the time the pollster asks, the answer is just a matter of habit.
If Trump voters were going to be turned off from a candidate by being insulted by that candidate, they never would have voted for Trump, who frequently insulted all of his supporters.
The problem is that there is a double standard. Insulting racial minorities and Liberals for their views is standard operating procedure and has been for decades, so the right suffer no electoral disadvantage for doing so. But if the left start treating whites and Christians the same way that they have treated others, it is beyond the pale and they will suffer for it.
As to the OP when deciding the best way to defeat Trump, it is important to consider two things. First, that in spite of the way it feels, Trump didn’t actually win by a landslide. The election was effectively a tie. Second consider in what way it Trumps performance in office going to convince those people who previously voted against him or stayed home to vote for him instead. The key to 2020 in my opinion is to make sure that all those who voted against Trump in 2018 come out to vote, and that those who stayed home or voted 3rd party because they were sure that Hillary would win, learn the consequence of their inaction.
You might want to get the chicken’s opinion on that.