I must admit that the future event (The so-called second coming of Jesus)is a confusing issue.
On the one hand, Jesus came back to life after his death, and appeared to his desciples. He then told them “I am with you forever”.
Then, we have references in the NT to a “Second Coming”-which is completely unspecified.
Is it possible that the resurrection was inded the “Second Coming”?
This seems to fit, because it fits with the statements of Jesus, for example:
“Heaven and Earth will pass away…but my words will not pass away”-clearly, all of this was accomplished by the resurrection.
So why did the idea creep in that there would be a “second coming”-this had all been accomplished by the resurrection, and no need to suppose a return at some remote future time.
In other words, the mission is complete, you humans are on your own, you now have everything you need to save yourselves…if you so desire. I (Jesus/God) will be with you (in spirit), and you have the Church to guide you-don’t worry about the end…it is not forecast nor should you seek it.
Is the so-called “Second Coming” the result of a misinterpretation of scripture?
Early Christianity was an apocalyptic cult that expected Jesus to be coming back pretty quickly so if there was a translation error it would seem to have happened fairly early. So I kind of doubt there was a translation error of this magnitude. One thing to remember about the Bible is that its a compilation of books written by many different people over the course of many centuries and all put together rather poorly. Genesis, for example, has two different versions of creation.
It’s pretty clear in Acts 1 that the understanding was that Christ’s Presence would be manifest in a distinct way in the future. The Preterist interpretation of End-Times prophecy is that much was fulfilled in the events of 62-70 A.D.- the High Priest’s execution of James, brother of Jesus, on the Temple grounds, the Judean civil war, the Neronic persecution of Christians, the Siege of Jerusalem & the destruction of the Temple. The view is the fall of the Temple ended the Aion of the Mosaic Covenant, revealed the Presence of Christ at the Right Hand of God (fulfilling Daniel 7 & 9) & the Christian Covenant Aion was launched into the world. Full Preterists hold that EVERYTHING including Christ’s actual Return, the general Resurrection & Last Judgment occurred then (people who die now automatically get judged on their final destination & believers get their resurrection bodies). Partial Preterists teach that those events are still future.
It’s a cookbook!
Imagine that you were talking to a Roman from a couple of millenia ago and he was complaining that his Polytheistic religion had some contradictions. What would you say?
I know what I would say: “Grow the fuck up and stop trying to make sense about a bunch of nonsense”.
That’s easy, you just pick the one that justifies hating homosexuals or whatever else you want to find justification for at the moment.
Do full preterists believe the world will ever end?
Not that this has ANYTHING to do with the thread here…
Some may. Many don’t seem to.
Why, yes. That’s precisely how it (and every other “Holy Book”) has been used throughout history. Nothing to see here, folks. Keep moving. The thread subject is over there…
OK, I had to get to sleep so I kept that short. To expand on it, it may be that a full preterist will believe that entropy/heat death or the Big Crunch may naturally end the world, but not a Divine cataclysm. Of course, from the perspective of the unsaved, some such thing would be a unmitigated disaster, while believers could see it as the fading of the old system into the New Heavens & New Earth.
But I get the impression that many FPs believe that God will keep humanity & the Earth going physically forever; that as the Christian Faith flourishes & expands to all humanity then the natural world, both through gradual changes & scientific discovery, will also flourish & yield its secrets, enabling Christianized humanity to build an earthly Paradise & colonize space. Individual salvation & personal struggle with temptation will still be necessary. I don’t think any FP holds that Christian humanity will develop sinless perfectionism & there is always the possibility of apostasy & cultural decline.
If he complained directly to you about the situation, you would be free to respond in that manner.
If he was simply engaged in a conversation with others in which you were not compelled to engage, your comment would be completely out of line.
Similarly, your threadshitting, here, is also out of line and you will refrain from repeating this sort of rude behavior.
[ /Moderating ]
Full preterists come from both theological liberals, evangelicals, and fundamentalists right?
Yeah. The more conservative ones would lean to dating Revelation as being written in the early 60’s AD while the liberals would maintain a later date, such as the traditional 90’s AD. A major FP argument with a fundamentalist ring to it is “Jesus said all these things would be fulfilled in that generation so all things WERE fulfilled, no matter how things look or what later Church traditions & creeds say.”
I even read one suggestion that quite possibly before the destruction of Jerusalem that Christians there were raptured out & the Resurrection of the Dead literally occurred. I do not at all recall where I saw that.
I’ve read maybe fifteen books on the subject, which is to say I have only the merest smattering of knowledge of a subject that swallows great minds like you and I munch Skittles. To have an opinion worth knowing, you gotta have Ph.D. level Ancient Greek, Latin and Aramaic (Coptic wouldn’t hurt), a solid grounding in archeology and linguistics, and a solid knowledge of the top one hundred books written on the subject.
That would be enough to get you started. Probably have to grab some German as well, lot of this stuff is in German. Getting up to speed on textual criticism, won’t take more than ten, fifteen years at OCD intensity.
Anyway, if Jesus is coming back, I reckon I’m as ready as the next guy. Beats hell out of insect overlords, anyway.
Jesus is quoted both by Matthew and Mark, that he would return in His Father’s glory with his angels,before some of those standing there would see death;in other words during the first century. There is no record of that happening so, either Jesus was miss quoted, didn’t say it, or thought he would return but didn’t!
Since there was no angels or did Jesus come in His father’s glory the ressurection couldn’t have been what is implied with that statement. And it also nullifies the Revelations of John!
Well, maybe he came back and nobody remember to write it down.
It may well have happened, though records are spotty. He was not necesarily talking about the end, however. (We should hope, because if so we’re all pre-boned).
Not really. John was talking about other events, which did more or less occur (though he was fantastically nuts). Revelations isn’t about the end of the world, either: it was included as to the people who put things together, it had already happened.
You are correct, He wasn’t talking about the end of the world,just the beggining of His kingdom.He does imply his second coming though. It would be quite a thing to see Him in His father’s glory and all those angels, so it would be surprising that some one would neglegt to write it down,that would be more memorable then the Ressurection!
His (quoted )end of the world senerio doesn’t fit either, as He(according to the Gospel writers) stated the stars would fall, the moon not give it’s light etc. We now know the stars are always in a state of falling and even if our sun came any closer, the world would burn up, and all of the planets around it.
It should be noted that directly after Christ says “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom,” this is followed by the transfiguration. During that event, Jesus appeared as transfigured in the company of Moses and Elijah and Peter, James and John the brother of James heard the voice of God.
It stands to reason that what Jesus said was to be, was fulfilled by the transfiguration.