The Sopranos -- 6/3/07 (there will be open spoilers)

Cafe Society
41

No doubt what you say is true. I have never had the inclination to rewatch other series multiple times the way I have with The Sopranos and I have seen every episode at least twice. I agree that the glamor of mob life – especially the mob of the late 90’s and early 2000’s – has been minimalized in the show.

But the glamor of the show and how its rising above other TV fare has been so marked since it first hit the small screen, is what I’m referring to. With shows like The Shield following in its wake, there’s much evidence that The Sopranos will mark an historical divide between “before” and “after” its arrival.

But it’s the tone of the show this last season that saddens me for its leaving us. I think Chase & Co. are to be congratulated for taking the fun-loving and “good times” elements out and replacing them with the sense of doom and finality that has been in so much evidence lately.

The body count has always been unpredictable, but (for me) starting with Adriana, the inevitability of the loss of strong characters has been accelerating. To lose Christopher, Bobby and Sil, and (for practical purposes) AJ in the past few weeks has left me wondering what they can pull together for whatever follow-up movie(s) they may be planning. I just hope the movies aren’t all flashbacks and dream sequences. One thing’s for sure: I will watch them!

42

Some more thoughts:

I think Chase has made a concerted effort to deglamorize the mob lifestyle. I think he was genuinely concerned that people were impressed/enamoured with Tony when all he is is a sociopathic scum bag. That’s always been my problem with works of fiction like the Godfather. They glamorize these thugs when in reality there is nothing honourable about them at all. Goodfellas portrayed them in exactly the right light. I’d love to see a mob movie about a legitimate business fending off these types of animals and all the tribulations they have to go through just to make a living.

As for the episode itself, I always Elliot was jealous of Melfi having Soprano as a patient. That said, that scene was a little over the top as Elliot breached several layers of doctor/patient confidentiality.

I liked how Janis complains that they don’t have the money to support Junion but then Bobby spends 8k on a train set (did I hear that correctly)?

My biggest issue though is why didn’t the NJ crew see all of this coming? They went out of their way to avoid a way when Tony’s cousin acted up but now they seem to have walked right into it.

Any odds on Tony going into protection or one of his crew whacking him?

43

Tony’s in denial?

Tony and NJ aren’t getting any respect from NY. We’ve been reminded of this for the past few weeks in the previews when we see Tony trying to negotiate with Phil on the asbestos thing, and Phil won’t budge.

If Phil had given a little, maybe Tony wouldn’t have given Coco such a beating, for the incident with Meadow. He would have done something, but probably nothing as bad as the curb stomp.

I think Tony wants out and he’s been engineering things (subconsciously or not) so that he can tell himself he had no choice, whatever happens.

44

They don’t see it coming because they are not smart. Despite everything going on, Bobby is still visiting the train store (with his phone ringing in his pocket in the car), Sil and Patsy don’t have any goons with them - they’re acting like their still the Kings of NJ. More romanticized versions of mob life would have had them all acting like rogue Green Berets, but this, IMO, is closer to the true story about these thugs. Paulie, right now, is probably the most valuable, as he’s lived through this and he knows what it takes.

If anyone had left Tony when he told them to go at the safe house near the end, Tony probably would have had them whacked. It was a loyalty test, not Tony showing compassion.

45

Some good points guys. Very interesting to see what happens next week. I’m not seeing a way out for Tony but we’ll see.

Does anyone know if it is a 2 hour finale?

46

OK, here’s my wild eyed prediction: (I’m not going to spoiler box it, because it’s just a half-assed guess, after all)

Paulie kills Tony.

  1. Paulie is a survivor. He’s been in the family longer than anyone. He knows that a war with New York is unwinnable, so he puts himself on the winning side.

  2. Paulie has always had a love for New York. In season 4, he was all but an informant for Johnny Sack, until he found out that Johnny had been more or less playing him. By doing this, he earns New York’s gratitude and their blessing to take over as boss of New Jersey.

  3. He’s pissed off at no longer being part of the inner circle. He was pushed aside for Bobby, and this is payback.

47

Apologies in advance for such long posts (I’ll split it up). It’s just that I love talking about the show. Also, I mention individual posters to acknowledge they sparked my response(s).

**Questions:

Since hbo said it was Phil’s housekeeper who was killed, why would the killers wait for Phil there?

Did Sil seem particularly overweight to anyone in this episode last night?**

Rubystreak, flickster: “Melfi finally caves”, or wimped out. She actually stood up for herself and her profession. The magazine just loomed large as another example of T coming to her and taking what he needed. What’s more important ultimately is that she cut him off and set that boundary. R: Good call on A.J.’s self-centeredness, self-indulgence and all-around whingeing.

What Exit: What was Parvati, uhm, I mean Janice, thinking, asking T for money for Junior? Thinking about herself, so she wouldn’t be on the hook, that’s what.

Labdad: Yes, that was the AR-10 (so says hbo website). There went my prediction that Bobby would take over. But I’ll give it one more try below.

JoeyP, Hippy Hollow: One of the guys at the Doc Santoro hit had on white shoes (Smitty, could it have been Paulie, setting himself up for survival?); they definitely focused on the foot lifting into the car). White shoes mean something, the way they’ve been focused on. Planned from the beginning or not, the producers/writers are quite skilled at alluding to things past, as well as using symbolism, foreshadowing, etc., I’ll agree.

Rilchiam: It seemed deliberately blocked that, for a brief instant, it looked like Tony was going eat his gun at the safe house.

Sam Stone: Phil may be popular in certain venues, but there’s been ample evidence of Phil’s disrespecting Tony since forever (Vito, Meadow, etc.). And you know these mobsters gossip like page 6 reporters.

48

Again, my apologies for such a long post.

Zeldar, JoeyP, AuntiePam: For a show I absolutely hated when it first began, it’s amazing how much I love the show now. I think all of your analyses about the end of this thing, correct or not, are quite astute.

Lochdale: I think Tony will go on the run, be out of the life, and find a way to finally be content with that. I think Carmella will rejoin him, but I have a feeling he will lose somebody else, probably A.J. (due to him contacting/seeing Rhiannon?).

Or, round the bend, Argent Towers, as chintzy as it would be, this might all have been but a dream. I hope not also. I agree with JoeyP about the lighting; even though it was sunrise, there was still something strange about it. The same with the night Chris died.

In a sense though, it seems as though the producers/writers have really come to hate Tony, et al. (in addition to de-glamorizing mob life), by letting it appear that that petri dish of ecoli, Phil Leotardo, will come out on top. Or, at least my total hatred of Phil makes it seem that way. Morbo: I pray what you say in your spoiler box is true.

49

Don’t apologize! You love talking about it, we love reading about it. :slight_smile:

HBO isn’t always correct in their synopses. Wasn’t the woman supposed to be Phil’s girlfriend? (I don’t know how to spell “goomah”, and don’t you think a mob wife coined that term? It’s ugly.) HBO has messed up some Deadwood and Carnivale recaps too.

50

Johnny Sack was still running things when Tony’s cousin did that. If Phil would have been in charge then, the war would have come earlier.

Oh, and has there ever been a character that would more greatly benefit from a bullet between the eyes than that little butt-ugly, cross-eyed pet hobbit of Phil’s? I forget his name, but I just want to step on that roach every time he comes on screen!

51

The big constant throughout the series is that Tony will fuck up everything he says he cares about.

So in the end, his loyalties to the Mob might not matter to him all that much. And he has been talking an awful lot to the feds lately - about small stuff, sure, but I think he trusts Agent Harris.

My prediction is a long shot one - Tony cuts a deal with the feds and takes out not only all New Jersey associates but all of Brooklyn as well. This makes sense - he knows enough dirt to get everyone, and everyone he cares about (Christopher, Johnny Sack, Vito, Tony B. and Sil) are dead or as good as dead.

The only thing he has left is his family and his freedom. I think he’ll take that. And that will leave us all feeling very conflicted about Tony Soprano and his whole family.

52

I agree with you. This is, in my opinion, the most likely scenario.

53

BTW, we still haven’t discussed draining the pool, any thoughts?

54

Well, obvious idea #1 is that AJ will have to use the stove, a knife, a gun or the car in the garage for his next try.

Maybe Tony’s given up on the ducks.

It could be money is tight enough to worry about heating it.

That’s all I’ve got, but I bet there’s deeper implications.

55

My crazy prediction-

Patsy gives up Tony and crew. Remember that Tony had his brother killed. Patsy himself nearly got killed because of Tony. He gives up Tony for protection and a place in the new Jersey regime. This is why Meadow was put with his son. He can be head, or a consiglerie, with his family tied to the Soprano name.

56

I think that would require Paulie dying early in the next episode. Otherwise your theory sounds pretty good to me. Paulie is his last close connection to the old days. I don’t think Tony is prepared to betray him. If Paulie dies (probably in a small blaze of glory), I could see Tony deciding to take down Brooklyn via the feds.

Jim

57

All of the above maybe. It also I think ties into the absestos dumping. Tony was draining the pool into the stream behind the house. Chemical like chlorine are going to pollute the pool.
Tony’s mob family polluted the water and now his regular family is polluting the water.

58

I don’t think she wimped out by cutting off Tony’s therapy. I think she wimped out by not telling him exactly why. I wish she’d have said, “You are not getting better-- I’m just enabling you to continue with your life of crime. I don’t want to be part of what helps you get out of bed every day when what you do is not productive for society.” That’s the paradox of Melfi’s situation: by helping Tony function, she was actually harming the rest of the world. Frankly, I think Tony needed to hear that. As it is, I bet he walked out thinking it was all about the missed sessions and the mutilated magazine.

59

On the safe house - I thought it was the old Soprano home, where his mom lived before going into assisted living, and there was some symbolism of him bedding down in his childhood room. And yes that was the gun Bobby gave him for his birthday.

No way Paulie kills off Tony. I’m betting Tony cuts a deal w his FBI contact on the condition that he gets to kill Phil, then gets the hell out of town in the Witness Relocation Program. I’d love to see Furio come back but I think it wouldva happened starting with this episode.

An alternative would be for Tony to call in his distant, distant cousins Titus Pullo and Lucius Vorenus from the old, old country to come in and wipe out Phil and his whole crew.

60

You did say this originally and I think you’re right. Although there’s no guarantee T wouldn’t have twisted the truth into a “missed meetings and a mutilated magazine” scenario anyway.

Did anybody notice the amount of dissembling going on with Tony and Carm in the scene at Vesuvio re: Meadow and A.J. (they’re *relieved * Meadow’s quit pre med and is dating Patrick Parisi and that AJ is doing well).

My god; how “head deliberately buried in the sand” can you get?