The Starving Artist plan to restore America to its former glory!

The BBQ Pit
181

I’m a policy analyst. I can’t criticize this as a legitimate theory, I can only throw it out and ask for a rewrite.

Starving Artist, do you have a solution, or only complaints? If you have some ideas, maybe we could have a legitimate conversation. Until then, you really do sound like a grumpy old man. Hell, to make it easier, let’s consider this at the level of a single state, to avoid the complication of federal vs. state law, and I’ll even give you a head start:

  1. Require citizenship to be a mandatory part of the elementary school curriculum. Children would learn about morals and the value of hard work, kindness, and sharing with non-religious content.

Don’t like it? Change it. I’m trying to figure out what you think we should actually do, besides whining, to fix things to your satisfaction. Consider the political realities - for instance, if you want to mandate home ec for high school girls, think: is this going to actually fly?

Frankly, the argument in this thread is old and boring. This is like the eighteenth time we’ve done this. I like the idea, though: SA will finally tell us what to do to make our nation more civil! I eagerly await his ideas.

182

white men can’t jump? :smiley:

183

Sigh. Okay, so I’m an anthropologist (subfield’s archaeology, hence the heavy physical labor). My biggest pet peeve is when people spout off nonsense in my field without having the slightest clue what they’re talking about. Starving Artist, if you still honestly believe that races exist as anything but social categories, you seriously need to read up on some modern biological anthropology. The American Journal of Physical Anthropology had a very good issue all about race about a year ago, and it explains why most biological anthropologists today don’t accept biological race. It actually has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with good science. Check it out! I have the PDFs of the articles if you are interested and can’t find it another way.

And I hardly thought you were the president of the He-Man Woman Hater’s Club, Keeping the Ladies Out of Firefighting chapter, but can you really not see why we’d be upset? I know you think you’re saying “obvious facts”, but you’re spouting the type of BS that has made it very difficult for women in any field that isn’t nursing or teaching. Of course I’m going to get upset when you say that women are categorically weaker than men. It goes against my own experience, as there are different kinds of strength, and it’s the kind of attitude that would have made it difficult for me to get field experience even in the early '90s. Besides that, in any job but weightlifting, there’s more to it than simple strength. I’m betting a huge chunk of firefighting has to do with keeping cool in a stressful situation, which is not a sex-based trait at all.

184

Were these issues as prevalent then as they are now? Why or why not?

Minus the fashion part, of course.

185

Starving Artist is totally right. Look at the politeness of American antiquity:

“Darling, would you please stand still so I can beat you with this stick?”

“My good redskin, I apologize for this, but I’m afraid we are going to have to take over your land and kill your wife and child. Would you prefer to be exiled, imprisoned, or shot right here?”

“Look here, sir, I’m afraid I must challenge you most respectfully to a duel. Pistols at dawn, then?”

“Jim, would you and the other slaves please harvest my cotton crop for me before I have to horsewhip you again? And while you’re at it, please send me your wife, would you? Beastly hot today!”

“Mr. O’ Brien, you are a valued employee of the Orion Mining Company, and as such we are willing to graciously overlook your debt at the company store in exchange for a few more years of hard labor. It’s not like we force you to purchase enough food for your family every week, is it?”

“With apologies to all the coloreds in the room… oh, who am I kidding? Ha ha. Anyway, this next tune is my big hit and it’s called ‘Coon Ain’t Got No Mind to Lose.’”

“I’m sorry, madam, but you know as well as I that persons of the fairier sex are not allowed to vote. It is simply the law, and I don’t think I need to explain it to you. Now, would you please return your dainty self home before your husband or father misses you, hmm?”

“Pardon me, nigger, but would you please step out of that dilapidated one-room shack we so generously allow you to live in so we can beat you, castrate you, and then burn you at the stake?”

“Communist? No offense, but what are you, some kind of depraved, Satan-worshipping, America-hating, lazy piece of human garbage? With all due respect, I hope someone pounds some sense into your red-addled brain with the business end of a truncheon!”

Much better than today.

186

That’s kinda lame, given that you could at least argue that the meanings were ambiguous at best and implied at worst.

Nowadays, we aren’t so fortunate. Explicit lyrics in songs have become…far more explicit. Care to define why that is, and why its acceptable, and whether or not its had an impact?

187

Yeah, you’re pretty much right about everything you’ve said. Like I said waaaay upthread, you can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube. I don’t see any way to bring things in line with my idea of how things should be. My primary purpose in bringing these things up is to try to get people to look at what liberalism has done, the problems it has caused and the people who have been harmed because of them, and to perhaps rethink their alliegance to the liberal way of thinking. I also do it to counter the non-stop drumbeat of conservatives are teh suxxorr that goes on around here, and to meet its aggressiveness with aggressiveness of my own so as to make it stand out more. To fight fire with fire, so to speak.

Another reason I do it is because so many people come along after the fact and restate my opinions or what I’ve said in ways that show they either don’t understand what I was getting at, or that they’re deliberately trying to cast what I’ve said in a ridiculous light so as to encourage people to be dismissive of it. Also, there are a lot of posters on this board and new ones come in all the time. I have no way of knowing who has read which of my posts and who hasn’t. So when people say things that indicate they either having read my previous postings or that they’ve misunderstood them, I feel compelled to repeat them then too.

A couple of other things to keep in mind too is that as a ratio of my total posts or percentage of threads I post in, I really don’t bring up post liberal counter-culture all that often. It has seemed to me that the posts I do make seem to have an impact far beyond their actual number or frequency. It’s been my impression that liberals, who like to think of themselves as being members of the kind, protective, tolerant and caring ideology, don’t very often get confronted by someone alleging that a lot of people have suffered and died because of the consequences of liberal activism. So I’ve been inclined to mark down the exaggerated effect of my relatively few posts on the subject to liberal outrage over accusations that they haven’t been confronted with before. And then there’s the fact that no matter how much I post on the subject, I get confronted with a hundredfold as many anti-conservative posts around here every day which I find every bit as offensive as the board’s liberal posters do mine. So I wind up feeling outnumbered and outgunned and this too probably keeps me from feeling that I’m posting too much. So yeah, I can see how posters who read my posts over and over can begin to find them tiresome.

To tell you the truth it has never crossed my mind until now that anyone here would be even slightly interested in whatever ideas I might have to make things better. Hell, it’s never even occurred to me that anyone would acknowledge that anything wrong to be made better.

But Blalron (I think it was) and now you have indicated an interest in knowing what I think should be done to address some of the problems that I complain about, so I’ll give it some thought. Maybe even start a thread (or two or thee…or four or five ;)) to lay them out. But I can tell you right now that it won’t be pretty if I do. What Tipper Gore came in for with regard to labelling music will seem like a lovefest in comparison to what I’ll very likely be in for once I start posting my ideas for solutions. :smiley:

188

It’s a little-known fact that Mack the Knife was a woodcarver, painter, garbageman, naval architect, and philantropist. And the line of women in the last verse? He also hosted a book club.

189

I’ve seen threads like this before where SA’s desire to see some of the good things from the fifties exist today gets changed to he wants ALL of what the 50s were like.

I have a simple question to all those who have been doing this, can you think of no aspect of the fifties that would make our society a better one today. Here, I’ll start: wouldn’t it be better for kids, and society, if they were so enamored with fashion. This, I think, impacts all groups negatively, and those in the lower economic strata disproportionately. Now, we can’t undo the rise of the brand, but how about if we moved to khakis and a logo-free solid color shirt for boys and something similar for girls? I think that’s one thing that might make us more fifties-like, without necessitating a return to segregated lunch counters, the resurgence of the KKK, and the end of safe abortions.

Anyone else?

190

Why not?

I mean, as I understand it, you consider women unable to perform a duty that firefighters might well be called upon to perform. Further you consider those women who are currently firefighters to be so due to the effects of feminist politics, rather than actual ability to perform the job in question.

You don’t have a problem with those things? If I agreed with you, i’d have a considerable problem with female firefighters.

magellan, when you say “move to” what are you talking about? Government mandated school uniforms?

191

I’m sorry, that’s creeping socialism. The American Way is: “Don’t like it? Threaten violence.”

192

So how often were songs like that popular then versus today where you can literally hear “Its getting so hot, I’m gonna take my clothes off”? or any other various references to selling drugs, killing people at random, getting girls to suck your dick, and so on?

I’m not on either side of this argument really, but there’s not much denying that a general crudeness in terms of “what’s acceptable” in terms of “the norm” has crept into our common language/popular culture to the point now where there’s no more trying to figure out what Elvis specifically meant about “Hound Dog crying all the time” when you have “artists” today spewing misogynistic lyrics that aren’t even censored anymore.

193

Rock and Roll means ‘have sex’. Not a joke. (Funk is the smell from sex)
“We’re gonna rock around the clock tonight. Gonna rock rock rock till broad daylight.” has a very specific meaning, man. Just because you’re square doesn’t mean the hep cats don’t get it.

Sure, it’s ambiguous. But the dancing had a lot of bump and grind to it. What, you thought it was clean like on TV?
Remember, Ed Sullivan reportedly ordered Elvis to be filmed from the waist up only. Course, that could be an urban legend, but it was an urban legend of the time.

194

Dean Martin, 1950. “Wham Bam, Thank You Ma’am”. Anything T-Bone Walker did. (which was then sanitized by Pat Boone) Cole Porter, “I get no kicks from cocaine.”
Louie, Louie wasn’t dirty, but everyone thought it was.
There were plenty popular songs in the 50s bout drinkin an’ fornicatin’ and druggin. And even some ones from earlier. Like The Ballad of Eskimo Nell.

195

I agree. The level of raunchiness in public and society today IS overwhelming. I don’t like it one bit, but that ship has sailed. It is up to us to effect the future. The sad thing is that more polite people are reluctant to speak up…

196

Legacy of the 60s, when anybody who acted like an adult was a reactionary puke.

The reactionary pukes of recent years have learned the lesson particularly well, it seems.

197

Thanks for this post, random6x7, it’s a good one. I’ll be back later tonight or tomorrow to answer it, but I need to settle down and clear my head a little bit first. It’s a good post and it deserves a thoughtful and deliberative answer, but I’m involved in about six or seven different threads right now and my mind is running about 90 miles an hour - a speed not conducive to thoughtful and deliberative answers. :stuck_out_tongue:

So I’ll post more later but in the meantime I didn’t want you to think I was blowing you off.

198

Ok. Moving on then. Elucidator said this:

Starving Artist responded:

Can we talk about this for awhile?

Yes, of course Nixon was not a hippie. Nixon was an imperialist. At least enough people thought he was that the truth doesn’t even matter. Look, president Polk abused the machinations of politics to provoke a war with Mexico in the early 1800’s, but at least that guy had his evil ducks in a row- he achieved his penultimate goal of seizing California territory for the United States, and to this day it is a debt-ridden pile of crap we can all call our own. Look at what Ralph Waldo Emerson said about a similar war to claim territory from the Cherokees:

Why the fuck am I talking about Emerson’s opposition to Polk? Because it reflects the American public’s opposition to Vietnam. Only in the case of Nixon and his his involvement in Vietnam, instead of victory, everyone in America was treated to a steaming shit sandwich, Nixon was exposed as a crook and a liar, and the whole Vietnam affair went down as a top-level clusterfuck. So, to prove that you did not identify with the Satanic Nixonian leadership of the country, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent young people joined the counter-culture. They did not realize at the time that their motives were setting them up to ingest LSD. Promoted by the CIA. That’s Nixon’s men.

I will have to insist once again that you pay attention to War Pigs. If the video is loading slow, open the window, take a shit and a shower and come back and it’ll play just fine. People really believed that the administration had become evil. They would not identify with it, because they did not identify with evil- kind of the opposite of the drift of your posts. Nixon fucked Satan and begat Ozzy. Ozzy is actually the innocent party here- he didn’t ask to be a Nixonian Satan-spawn after all.

The counter-culture is the conservatives’ baby.

199

No worries! I understand things getting overwhelming. Thanks!

I know this point is currently being made by lots of people, but I’m wondering if the people that think we’re exceptionally raunchy these days really believe that? In living memory, maybe, although there are plenty of examples here that dispute that. But haven’t you read Shakespeare? The language’s a bit dense for nowadays, but it was quite clear back then. When Hamlet was speaking of country matters, the emphasis was on the first syllable, and that’s not generally acceptable these days in public speech. Also, the original versions of the fairy tales are incredibly violent and sexual. I was also very disappointed in the movie Troy, mainly because the Iliad has some wonderfully detailed battlefield descriptions. What went on in the movie did not at all compare to the multiple gory details that Homer gave. Then there’s that Platonic dialogue that goes on and on about the butt prints that beautiful young men leave in the sand, in all sorts of raunchy detail. And these are just the examples that survived! We seem to go through a raunchy and violent to prudish and back again cycle, and I just don’t see anything different about what’s going on these days.

200

No worries! I understand things getting overwhelming. Thanks!

I know this point is currently being made by lots of people, but I’m wondering if the people that think we’re exceptionally raunchy these days really believe that? In living memory, maybe, although there are plenty of examples here that dispute that. But haven’t you read Shakespeare? The language’s a bit dense for nowadays, but it was quite clear back then. When Hamlet was speaking of country matters, the emphasis was on the first syllable, and that’s not generally acceptable these days in public speech. Also, the original versions of the fairy tales are incredibly violent and sexual. I was also very disappointed in the movie Troy, mainly because the Iliad has some wonderfully detailed battlefield descriptions. What went on in the movie did not at all compare to the multiple gory details that Homer gave. Then there’s that Platonic dialogue that goes on and on about the butt prints that beautiful young men leave in the sand, in all sorts of raunchy detail. And these are just the examples that survived! We seem to go through a raunchy and violent to prudish and back again cycle, and I just don’t see anything different about what’s going on these days.