I’ll note that I hear Duran Duran’s music fairly frequently, but that may be a self-selection bias, as I listen to SiriusXM, and two of the channels I listen to the most are their '80s channel, and “First Wave” (1980s alternative and new wave); Duran Duran gets played frequently on both of them. Additionally, Simon LeBon hosts a weekly music show on SXM’s “The Spectrum,” another of my favorite channels.
One definitely has to be careful if you’re using satellite radio, as it’s EXTREMELY directed to taste (and yet has an odd mix even within its channels.) I don’t listen to satellite or streaming radio but when I had it I found the mixes really weird. The 80’s channel almost never played Prince or Michael Jackson, which is like having a TV channel called “90s Sitcoms Set In New York About A Group of Friends That Frequent A Coffee Shop” that never shows episodes of “Friends.”
I’m the biggest Hip fan I know - I am from Kingston, after all - but wouldn’t vote for them. It’s objectively possible for Canadian acts to do very well in the US, UK, Australia, etc., as proven by Alanis Morrisette, Rush, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Drake, Nickleback, Justin Bieber, The Weeknd, Bryan Adams, and on and on, and they didn’t. Most of the answers for them on the Supertramp List are “no.” Of course in a CANADA Rock Hall of Fame they’re inner circle.
As an American, I’ve not really had a lot of exposure to The Tragically Hip – I’d long heard of them, but I don’t think I ever heard much of their music, until Gord Downie died, and I followed some links from the tribute thread for him here on the SDMB.
I wonder if, from an American standpoint (and a R&RHOF standpoint) they’re not unlike the Dutch band Golden Earring: massive, long-term success in their home country (eighteen studio albums in the top 10 in the Netherlands, across six decades), but only two songs (“Radar Love” and “Twilight Zone”) that had much of an impact in the U.S., or other countries.
Once the Hall of Fame got past the core 50s/60s artists the notion that inductees had to rock dissipated in the list just as it did in real life. Even so, adding Dolly Parton was nothing but a way to bring in a bigger audience for the induction ceremony. She’s in the Country Hall of Fame just like Willie Nelson. They don’t need to be in the R&R Hall of Fame. That adds nothing to the Hall or their careers.
With those parameters I’ll nominate someone who is in no Hall of Fame to my knowledge and yet deserves to be. Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. They formed in 1988, so 35 years, long past their first year of eligibiity.
Was this artist exceptionally popular in their time, as measured by record sales/downloads, concert tour popularity, and presence on top hit lists?
Not by the standards of the Rolling Stones, but their second album was #1 on the Contemporary Jazz charts. Each of the first three albums, by the original members, received Grammy nominations.
Was this artist, even by professional standards, exceptionally talented as a musician(s)?
Bela Fleck is acknowledged as the master of the electric banjo. Victor Wooten is talked about as being among the best all-time bassists. Howard Levy is a whiz on pianos and harmonica. Roy Wooten, aka Futureman, is their equivalent on percussion.
Did this artist have significant, lasting influence on other artists and the development and creation of popular music?
Fleck was part of the group New Grass Revival, which lived up to its name in revival and updating the genre of bluegrass. Modern bluegrass continues today as a major genre.
Assuming enough time has passed to say, does this artist have songs that remain in the popular consciousness?
No. I wouldn’t expect anyone who wasn’t a core fan to know the songs.
Assuming enough time has passed, does this artist remain popular well after the primary body of their career ended?
The Flecktones won five Grammys from 1997 to 2012, all except the last in a period when horn player Jeff Cotten replaced Levy.
Did this artist remain popular for a long period of time?
Levy rejoined the group in 2011 and brought the group back to its original sound, leading to worldwide tours and their last Grammy Award. Their 13th and 14th albums were also #1 on the Jazz charts, a quarter century later.
Did this artist remain popular after the type of music for which they were first known passed from popularity?
See above.
Did this artist perform music that is or was regarded as being unusually musically sophisticated or innovative?
They essentially invented their own genre of music that Thom Jurik called an “unclassifiable meld of jazz, progressive bluegrass, rock, classical, funk, and world music traditions.” The concert I saw with Levy back in the lineup was the greatest live concert I’ve been to in 56 years of music. You could not possible say that some of the music wasn’t pure rockers that brought up out of your seats.
The Flecktones are sui generis. Nobody really imitates them, although many jazz groups now incorporate elements of world music. That’s a long tradition they didn’t invent. Just as The Beatles melded together music from a dozen different genres that encouraged others.
Did this artist have some specific historical impact on the music industry?
Fleck personally has had influence on almost all aspects of modern bluegrass and world music. He’s played with banjo artists from many countries to bring attention to their work. He has been nominated in more Grammy categories than any other musician, winning nine outside the Flecktones. Victor Wooten is a world-class bassist who created an all-bass group that pumped up the interest in the bass as a lead instrument.
Is this artist clearly a better candidate than other eligible artists of their specific genre? Time period?
They are one of the great groups of all time. Period. The only possible issue is their lack of categorization. They chart in jazz because of this. But jazz fusion was a thing for twenty years before they got together. No one doubt that jazz and rock can successfully mix. There was a Jazz Hall of Fame that fizzled out. No contemporaries were named before that happened.
Bela Fleck and the Flecktones have no place to go to be recognized for their greatness. Why shouldn’t the Rock and Roll Hall do so? They rock. More than some of the current inductees.
People will differ in their responses to these questions. How do you consider someone like Psy, with influence and popularity but not many great songs? Anyway, many other groups have been snubbed, including:
Just to note that that Rolling Stone article is from nine years ago, and a number of the artists it lists have since been voted in (including Duran Duran and Kate Bush this year).
With the current quality of new artists, they’ll clear this list soon. Now get off my lawn!!
I think it’s perfectly fair and appropriate to benefit such artists. It’s a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Musical Talent or whatever.
The Hip are a very interesting case - they’re slightly older than the Barenaked Ladies (“Tragically Hip” was released in ‘87, I remember buying the Barenaked Ladies’ first cassette in '92, and “Gordon” came out that same year.), but while the Barenaked Ladies actively pursued success in the US market, the Tragically Hip did not. I think peak US fame for The Hip would have been when they played on SNL in '94.
But for whatever reason, they didn’t really strike much of a nerve down there, and they didn’t want to change what they were doing to pander to US fans. Whereas they spoke so eloquently of the anglo-Canadian experience, they effortlessly became not only a top band in Canada, but also a top promoter of other bands through their “Another Roadside Attraction” concerts/tours.
I remember playing “Fully Completely” for a US friend in 2000, and her reaction was a colossal ‘Meh - sounds like second-rate REM.’.
Several American friends of mine listened to the Hip and remained unenthusiastic. Even in Canada, their ascension took some time. They played plenty of low paid gigs at places like The Wheat Sheaf and other Toronto watering holes.
This is a true story. Our high school student council paid one thousand dollars to have The Tragically Hip do a full concert, before they were well known. Under twenty people actually showed up, and the council was criticized for losing money. People made fun of them.
Another reason I think the Rock and Roll HOF is a joke. 135 bands/artists not in the R&R HOF. If I had to choose 135 bands and/or artists to listen to the rest of my life, I would choose these artists instead and those in the HOF.
I’ve championed some of those bands myself. But at least 50% have good reasons for lack of inclusion. Blind Faith and Derek and the Dominos were one-album groups. Is Clapton such a God that he deserves to be in five separate times? If anything he touched should be in the Hall why not John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers? They should be in just as influencers, since half the British Invasion started there. Six times for Clapton, not an induction less!
Frankly I don’t see much different between this list and the list of artists actually in the HOF, in this sense: Both lists have some artists I love, some I think are pretty good, some meh, and some I hate. I have my personal tastes, like everybody else, but I certainly don’t expect anyone else to follow them exactly.
Definitely agreed. I look at that list, and I see some artists who I definitely think should be in the Hall, like Joe Cocker. But, the list also includes supergroups that were only briefly relevant (Blind Faith, Asia), guys who are already in as a member of a band, but also had some (lesser) success as a solo artist (Gregg Allman, Roger Daltry, Jon Bon Jovi), and bands that pretty much had one or two good albums, even though they stuck around far longer (Boston).
And, some on that list are just…well, they were fine, but the listmaker seems to be scraping the bottom of the barrel to find excluded bands. Brownsville Station? Ace Frehley?
So, it’s the Pop Rocks Museum?
Including Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young is almost comical.
As a foursome, they had one good studio album, a good live album, and some reunion albums that are forgettable.
Crosby, Stills, and Nash are already in, Buffalo Springfield is already in, The Byrds are already in, The Hollies are already in, and Neil Young as a solo artist is already in.
No way in 24 lifetimes I would trade the ones who are in for CSNY.
Ram Jam and Billy Squier stuck out for me. I mean, catchy tunes. If I hear them on my car radio, I’m not reaching for the knob to turn the station. But I’m NOT seeing Hall of Fame material there by a long shot.
But then again on the other hand, to my way of thinking, Ozzy Osbourne and Iggy Pop would be no-brainers. That is to say, in the context of a decision to induct them.
I agree completely. I think what inductees have in common (or should) is being disciples of a genre that pissed off their parents. IOW, having an edge, a R&R attitude. That’s not enough, of course. But RickJay’s excellent criteria help flesh that out from that starting point. So, The Sex Pistols, yes. Bon Jovi? Nope.
But hip-hop as a genre? You bet…
I didn’t say all the artists shown on that website should be in but there are a number that should. Looking at the current 365 inductees, I easily found more that 135 that I don’t believe should be included. They really need to change the name to the pop music hall of fame.
That’s a fair opinion but it’s not really on topic; the idea here is to compile a list of questions that accurately frame a good discussion. Obviously, one’s own musical tastes cannot be the only basis for thinking an act belongs in a hall of fame. It would also make the discussion boring; there would be nothing to discuss, no facts to debate.
One of the oddities that a Hall of Fame for music acts faces is defining the boundaries from one artist to another; obviously The Police are a good choice, but do you have to separately induct Sting or is he already in? Genesis spawned both Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins. They nominated “Joy Division/New Order” as a single act just to make it more justifiable to induct both.
Sports Halls of Fame don’t have that problem, because they don’t induct a whole team and then later a player who was on that team but then had more good seasons with another team.