I am SO out of date.
I had no clue Oriental was offensive, as a matter of fact, I believe is used it in a post a few weeks ago. No offense intended. Like Opal, I’ve always found the term more descriptive and romantic.
Live and learn.
This has been done over and over but I just can’t stand not saying I agree. I have a friend who is quite white… and she’s from Africa.
I don’t have to tell you that no one calls her ‘African American.’
It’s impossible not to make a mistake here. I have a friend married to a ------- woman. Trying to be sensitive, I once referred to her “Native American” ancestry, and my friend informed that she, and her entire family, vastly preferred “American Indian.” My point was, and is, that since making mistakes is impossible because we are supposed to be sensitive to individual preferences where literally millions of individuals are involved, the only solution is that CORRECTIONS be offered sparingly and gently and patiently. The tenor of virtually ALL of the corrections offered in this thread is that the corrector is fully entitled to be pissed-off, impatient, rude, self-righteous, aggressive and a bit of a jerk. That is NOT, IMO, how enlightenment is gained.
Agreed pseudotriton. My dad lightheartedly referred to his best friend’s wife as a ‘sqwa’ [spelling?] once. Apparently that’s worse than nigger. My dad had no idea.
I think that’s “squaw.” And if you ever say it or write it or think it again, I’m gonna bust you up, you understand me?
I didn’t see a clearly defined answer to one of the OP’s original questions.
And that was, what DOES an “oriental,” or “asian” person WANT to be called?
I mean, we don’t want to make the blunder of saying “my japanese acquaintance” so and so, when so and so could be chinese or korean.
I guess it shouldn’t matter at all, you should just be able to introduce “my FRIEND” so and so. But human nature being what it is, people are curious.
And we white people (we’re really NOT white, we are really shades of pinks, peaches and bieges), don’t necessarily know the difference since we weren’t raised where people DO know the subtleties of the different (is it occidental?) races.
While I have no burning need to use the word “oriental” I would have to say the issue with it isn’t an American thing. It’s a PC American thing.
TPFKAO (The people formerly known as Orientals) 
Not to put words in your mouth, but I think the OP was asking "what DOES an “oriental” or “asian” person in the United States WANT to be called?
I personally would be interested in the “why” as well.
Oh goddamnit. That’s definately the worst brain fart I’ve had in recent memory, where the hell did I get ‘sqwa’ from? :smack:
Gosh, I keep saying (don’t I?) that there’s more than one such person in the U.S., and I’m pretty sure there’s more than one such person in the world.
That being so, the only way you’ll get to know the answer (other than getting them to agree to a nomenclature that will be binding on all their descendants) is to find out by trial and error.
FUNNY comeback, I think even applefarts might “unfrown” at that one!!!
Yes, I’d like to know, especially if there are tpfkao people in here.
I have several friends of asian descent, fortunately, because I’ve KNOWN them for awhile, I do know that they are Korean, or Filipino, etc.
But it’s when meeting people you DON’T know that one is faced with that awkward “what do I call this person”?? “DO I call this person ANYTHING”???
I think most decent people WANT to be polite, we just aren’t always sure of the correct terminology to BE polite.
Just to muddy the waters further, I know a number of Japanese who would object to being called Asian, as it would be lumping them together with Chinese and Koreans and the rest. Japan is a Western nation, after all (so their reasoning goes).
Will the experts please answer my question.
What do you call blacks that are not American (North American that is)?
Me? Call me anything, just don’t call me late for dinner.
You know?? I think that that is a “generational” thing more than a culture thing, or perhaps a regional/generational thing.
People my age who are black and live in the same area of the US as I do are most likely to call themselves black. At least among the people I know and know of (re: news programs, teachers, politicos etc), they do.
This doesn’t mean I think that all people my age use only the term black, but that just in my experience they have, and those that I’ve know to use the term “African American” are generally from my daughter’s generation.
I call 'em black, when the need arises, just like I call 'em when they’re Americans. It’s this sticky wicket that I’d rather avoid, which is why I avoid the term African American. It implies that the person actually came from Africa. I don’t care that there are people who use it, even that there are blacks who use it. I think it’s stupid and I won’t. I won’t kick up a fuss if anyone else decides to use it, but I’m not going to use it, and I’m going to quietly pray that the term eventually falls out of use. Which I predict it will. I won’t go so far as to predict that the term will become offensive, like Cisco has, but I do bet it’ll one day go the way of the love-in, the iceman and the flapper.
I call anyone with dark skin “black” light skin “white,” people with dark skin who are middle eastern “middle eastern” and people who look Indian “Indian.”
They’re just descriptors, anyone looking to take offense is really reaching…
I had an Asian girlfriend once. Actually, she was half Spanish and half Filipino, had grown up in Spain, Australia and New Zealand, sounded like she’d never left New Zealand and acted like she’d never left Australia. But Asian was a good descriptor cause that’s what she looked like. And she didnt mind.
Cisco, you can have a problem with the PC-ness of this issue (heck I do too), but seriously get a clue. Yes, it is quite PC US to point out that “Oriental” is a racist term, but there are certainly Asian-Americans who feel strongly about this issue as well. here’s 7 pages of pit with an Asian that has strong views on the subject
That’s a good point. I tend to forget that even though this forum is American, the membership represents many different countries. And you’re right - I can’t speak for other countries, I can only speak for my own.
No, that’s uncalled for. I certainly wouldn’t have said anything like that.
Hmmm…but that kind of relates to one of my points. If a lot of people are telling you that they prefer “Asian” to “Oriental”, does it really matter why? That’s what I was saying about being sensitive. If a person likes to be called “Asian”, the simple fact that he prefers it is good enough for me. I don’t see how it’s hurting me to simply acquiesce to the person’s preference. It’s seems silly to insist that they prove to me why the preference exists.
You’re not going to get a “logical” explanation of why Oriental is out of favor. Words just tend to have connotations associated with them; there’s not really any logic to it. There’s nothing inherently wrong with “Jap”, it’s just an abbreviated version of “Japanese”. But it harkens back to a time of bigotry against Japanese people, so it’s out of favor. Do you really need to know why you can’t call people Japs? You just can’t, that’s all.
And I will say again, but this time with the qualifier that I am talking about the United States - Asian is the preferred word. And it has been for quite a bit more than 2 decades. I’m 39, and I can’t even remember a time when the word “Asian” was not preferred. And no, it’s not just white people who use it. Yes, I am white, but my Asian friends have always used that term, and have never used the word “Oriental”. Plus, it hasn’t changed in the past 30 years. I can understand to a certain degree the frustration that some people feel when ethnic groups “flip-flop” on what they want to be called, like “Afro-American” - “African American” - “black”, or “Native American” - “American Indian”. I don’t think it’s a big deal, but I can see how some people might get confused. But c’mon, we (in the United States) have been saying “Asian” for at least 30 years, and it hasn’t changed at all in that time. There should be no confusion.
blowero, I don’t disagree with you, but I do want to point out a something:
I think you need to qualify this idea that we in the US having been using “Asian” for at least 30 years thing, since plainly there are plenty of Americans who have never heard that “Oriental” is offensive. I’ve long used “Asian” myself, but it was on these boards, and not that long ago, that I was first informed that to do otherwise was considered offensive by some people.
Maybe this is a regional thing? As a point of interest at least to me, last night I asked a friend of mine, of Chinese descent but born and bred in San Jose, whether she considered “Oriental” to be offensive, and she’d never heard that before. I think it’s far too simplistic to say that this is the way it’s been in America for 30 years and everyone should know that.
In any event, my point is that there’s a world of difference between being aware that “Asian” is preferred and being informed that “Oriental” is offensive and that, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, there seem to be a good many Americans unaware that a good many other Americans consider “Oriental” to be inappropriate. As such, those who like to jump over others for being rude and insensitive ought perhaps to count to 10, just to be sure that in their haste to correct the usage of others they aren’t being rude and insensitive themselves.
blowero, certainly on the University of California, Davis, the Asians that worked on the Third World Monitor weekly newssheet dedicated to minority issues did not think Oriental was a bad word. My Japanese American girlfried and her other Asian friends thought it was “cute” to be referred to as “ornamentals”, and they were all politically active especially for the aparthied issue. It simply is not as easy as you paint it.
Yes, Jap is easy to explain why it is racist. Oriental is much more difficult. Why do I, white boy, care? Well, for starters my wife is Chinese and my daughter holds both US and Chinese passports. I personally want to be able to explain to anyone that wants to erase their ignorance why Oriental is a bad word.
If you’ll notice in this thread, it is really thin on any kind of support other than Asians in America think so.