Thanks for the link. I retract my previous statements.
My buddy’s Tivoing the Wednesday Coachspeak on NFL Network, so I’ll check out the discussion on Friday and report back if anything new is added above and beyond that link. (On Wednesdays they have a 5 minute segment with Perreira where he explains all the controversial rulings for the week. I have a feeling this week’s segment may run long.)
My take on it was that it was a shitty rule enforced properly, and I don’t read the NFL’s position in that link to be contradictory to my opinion.
Remember that nowadays you have to “complete the catch”, which means that even if you catch the ball along the sidelines and demonstrate clear possession, the refs keep watching you as you fall to the ground out of bounds. If, during that fall out of bounds, the ball comes loose, it’s ruled incomplete depite the fact that you had clear control the entire time you were in the field of play.
So if the ball comes out after you fall to the ground, it’s not a catch. The ref referenced this (amazingly poorly) when he mentioned that the knee was still down. Since the knee was still down, the ref concluded that Polamalu was still in that “must retain possession while coming down to the ground” area. So from his perspective, the guy made a clean catch, fell to the ground and failed to maintain control after being down.
The problem, IMO, is the rule. Yes, technically he was still down, but he wasn’t in the act of going down; he was in the act of getting up. (Which is painfully obviously a football move.) So that rule – which I’ve hated for the handful of years it’s been on the books – needs to be changed, again IMO.
I’m not a fan of Peyton Manning, and I never will be. He always comes up small in the big games, going back to college in all the games against Florida. Yes, he has good stats in the games. But when the stats matter, when he needs that big completion, the big play to put things over the top, he’s never there.
Look at the game on Sunday. 3 and 2 with plenty of time, two timeouts in his pocket. Like others have said, you run the damn ball. Edge is averaging four yards a carry. But he checked off and threw a bad pass. Game over. Yeah, the kicker should have hit it, but the big players don’t want to have to rely on that. They want to ball in their hands to control their own fate. Why go to overtime? You get the first down, then go down and score a touchdown.
He was throwing bad passes even when he wasn’t getting pressure. In big games, he comes up small. Until he wins a big one (AFC title/Superbowl), he’s not going to get rid of that stigma.
I agree. That rule is ridiculous.
You know, I kind of like Manning and happily would have rooted for the Colts to win the Superbowl (Hell, Dungy is a Steeler). But after the way publically slammed his O-line my opinion is dropping precipitously.
However, Mike Vanderjagt has hit a new low in blaming others for one’s own failings when he
blamed God for the missed field goal. Finally an athlete plays the “Jesus made me fumble” card.
Yep, thank you!
What? What kind of explanation is that?
Under league officiating procedure, an “act common to the game” is defined as controlling the ball long enough to hand it, pitch it or pass it. But Pereira noted that this definition only applies when there is “contact with a defensive player and the ball comes loose, which did not happen here.”
This play and ruling will be remembered for a long time; “Tuck Rule” territory, people.
Wild :eek:
That’s just not true. You could say that he comes slightly smaller in big games than he does in regular games – I don’t necessarily agree with that, but it’s a defensible position. What you said is pretty easily falsifiable, though. Sure, there are instances of his playing poorly in big spots during important games. What you’re overlooking is the fact that his team wouldn’t even be competitive in most of those games if it weren’t for Manning and all of the instances of his playing very well in big spots up till then.
That’s awesome.
Sorry, but when you’re the highest paid player in NFL history and singlehandedly killing your team’s cap space, you need to not just avoid being the reason your team loses, but you need to be the reason your team wins. Even more so when you’re the face of the franchise and are going to be the one to sop up all the credit when the team wins. Doubly so when you’re the QB and you decide you’re going to change every other play at the line of scrimmage and tell the offensive lineman who to block.
I highly disagree. Manning has one of the best runningbacks in the game behind him and some of the best receivers in the game in front of him. I posit that the Colts would be better off if they had a QB like Rothlesburger, Brees, Brady or someone like that who would be willing to listen to his offensive coordinator and get his star running back more involved in the game instead of being selfish and trying to do everything himself. Manning is like Kobe. They both hate to lose, but they both hate to not be The Man even more. And when they lose, they look to blame other first (ie, the offensive line).
I’m not going to disagree with all your points, but get James more involved in the game? The guy had 360 carries and 44 catches during the year. I’d posit that you can’t get much more involved than that. If you’re talking about this particular game, well when you’re down by 18 (three scores) at halftime against a team that you know is going to be all about ball control in the second half, you’re setting yourself up to lose if you don’t throw the football. I’d say it wasn’t selfish, I’d call it good strategy. Sometimes good strategy doesn’t work.
They were only down 11 points at the half, 14-3. The Steelers didn’t score their third touchdown until after the 2 minute mark in the third quarter. The Colts had one good drive in the first half, and that was when they got James involved. They had an OK drive to start the second half with James running the ball. Then, still only down by two scores and getting the ball at the 6:00 minute mark in the third, Manning throws two incomplete passes and gets sacked for the three and out.
In three possessions in the first quarter, James got three touches total (out of 12 non-punting plays). Manning threw four incomplete passes, was sacked twice and threw 2 completions. First possession of the second quarter, three straight incomplete passes. Their second possession (the long drive resulting in a field goal) they began with three straight rushes by James, a pass, then another rush, another pass, then a rush by Rhodes. They probably would have scored a TD on that possession if it wasn’t for the ridiculous false start penalty (not ridiculous in that it shouldn’t have been called, ridiculous in that they committed the penalty).
I disagree.
Neurotik said it best. There was still time to run the ball. Even down by 18, you still have time to run. It was the third quarter. You at least run it to loosen up the Pittsburgh defense. When they blitz and you break off a long run or two, they’ll back off. Then Peyton has time. Instead, they just ignored Edge. Most of the time you can’t blame the QB, since he doesn’t call the plays. With the Colts, however, all we hear about it how he’s constantly checking off. So you can blame him.
Bad game plan all the way around. You won in the regular season passing and running. Why stop at this point?
So then it had absolutely nothing to do with Pittsburgh’s scheme? Or the fact the the Steeler run defense has been stout all year and the secondary has been suspect? So it was a horrible game plan from the get go? You’re saying that they should have thrown out the gameplan after Peyton was 0/4?
Yeah, I agree that adjustments should have been made. However, I think your analysis comes down to “It’s all the QBs fault.”
Of course it had to do with Pitt’s scheme. But the fact is that the offensive coordinator and Golden Boy Manning failed to adjust to the scheme. Once it became apparent that the Steerler’s defensive scheme was more vulnerable to the run than the pass (and the first half made that abundantly clear) then they should have switched things up. But they didn’t. They completely failed to adjust.
No, I’m saying they should have thrown out the game plan once Manning was 2-9 and sacked twice in Indie’s first four possessions. Which they did and they proceeded to march down the field for a score. Then they completely reverted back to the failed idea of Manning throwing for an incompletion three times then punting.
When the QB assumes the mantle of playcalling like Manning does, then yes, a huge chunk of the blame falls on the QB. The offensive coordinator deserves blame, as well, but we don’t know how much blame because Manning switches the calls at the line every other play so I have no idea what the OC called.
It’s not all Peyton’s fault. However, you take the credit for making all the switches during the year, you also take the blame when it doesn’t work. Look at the play in the first half, the 4th and 2. Dungy sent in the punt team. Peyton waved them off to go for it. And it worked, good for him. What if it didn’t?
The game plan all season was to mix the run and pass, so teams didn’t know what was coming. It worked all season when they cared, except against the Chargers. When they beat Pittsburgh earlier in the season, they ran quite a bit more. Sure, they had an early lead, but the Steelers couldn’t stop the Colts offense, and it was because they couldn’t rush Peyton effectively because of the running game.
I meant to put in my last post that a lot of it was because of the Steelers defense. They played a great game.
I thought that Dungy looked absolutely sick when Manning waved the punt team off. I also wondered if that really indicated the degree to which Manning controls the team.
I also agree that throwing instead of running on the last play before the field goal try was pretty stupid. Third and two, already in field goal range - are the benefits of the gain that might have come from that pass worth the risk of having it picked off, which it nearly was?
OK, diku, I’m agree-ish with your most recent post. Particularly about the mixing run and pass better. As I stated earlier, James had 360 carries during the year…an absolute ton. The mix is what spelled success for them.
However, I just think that while they should have mixed it up some more in the second half, I don’t think they could afford to be run heavy.
Neurotik, I think you’re still a little heavy-handed in your analysis, but I guess we just disagree.
Oh, I agree. But on the 3rd and 2? You run. Coming out in the second half? Run the ball. You’re down by 11 at that point. Why let the Steelers get the ball back? Your offense can quick strike when it needs to.
Anyway, I’m glad the Colts are out :). And as my Titans sucked this year, I really don’t have a rooting interest now one way or another. I guess the Seahawks, since I saw Alexander play in high school.
That’s my team too. Do you want to hug or something?
No, I just hope they don’t trade down in the draft.
Any chance that Vince Young will be available? Steve McNair is already kind of his mentor, so it would be a great movie-of-the-week type story if he ended up here. It just seems too good to be true.
I’m going to spend the next 2 months in New Orleans talking up Matt Leinart.
Sorry to continue this hijack, but all the rumors from ESPN point to this happening. Bush first, Leinart second, Vince Young falling to us. McNair wants him here, and if Volek was going to be the man, he would’ve stepped up by now. Still, if we don’t get Young, we get either Bush or Leinart. There are worse fates.