The Thrills of BabyBell.net DSL Setup

The BBQ Pit
1

There are people who should know when they are over their heads doing technical support. There are people who have no goddam business doing technical support. There are people who should not be allowed to use a computer. There are people who are too fucking stupid to live.

Me and the girlfriend decide to get DSL. She is tired of missing phone calls because one or the other of us is online, and the cost of installing a second phone line for modem use is higher than putting in DSL in addition to which only one of us could use it at a time, so we make the leap to DSL. She, bless her ignorant soul, is a PC user, and her workstation is a Compaq laptop; my digital axe is a PowerBook G3.

Early shit: We can both use it? At the same time? Either of us can disconnect and leave and the other can still use it? BabyBell.net tech support says uh, well, we “don’t support networked installations”, but the service is available for Mac or PC, but the modem is specific to a given platform; the other computer MIGHT be able to see it anyway over a network (but “we don’t support networked installations” so don’t ask us how), but the software driver package for the PC is different from the software driver package for the Mac (no shit???) so I have to pay for a separate package containing the CD for the other platform.

I get from them that the modem is a Westell (two L’s; a single L is a different company with a different website). Westell says their DSL modem contains its own router and computers located downwind of it should each receive DHCP-allocated IP addresses. And concurrent use is OK. Sounds like we can both be online. So I order a hub from MacWarehouse, and some ethernet cabling.

The packages arrive. The second package containing the PC installation CD ($8.90 shipping charges) contains the exact same CD as the one that is bundled with the presumably Mac-centric Westell modem. I check: yep, each CD is cross-platform, I have an $8 copy of a CD I already own, thank you very much.

The PC portion of the install guide makes it apparent that there is nothing Mac-specific about the modem. I plan to put the modem upwind of the hub and from the hub run ethernet cables to Compaq and Mac. For early phase installation, I hook each computer directly to the DSL modem. Try to install on the PC first…

I have no real complaints about tech support for installing the PC client. It was a bitch to install but I got it up and running after a couple dozen restarts.

Now for the Mac…

Stick in the CD. Launch the installer. It says it installs files to the hard drive I choose. Has a “next” button, which I click. Installer crumples, quits unceremoniously, after proclaiming that it is about to change my IP settings.

Unlike the girlfriend, I use the laptop in a variety of settings, each of which tends to have its own TCP setup. At work, we have DHCP ethernet; at my own apt, I use PPP; I have saved settings for crossover ethernet for easy file transfer; I have infrared networking for file transfer with other PowerBook users at FileMaker Solutions Alliance; and so on. So I have created a new TCP profile for the installer to edit lest I lose one of my existing profiles. But it crashes trying to set it up.

It leaves behind Account Setup and Start BabyBell.net application files in a BabyBell.net_Backup folder on the installation hard drive. I try using them but can’t achieve a connection. Call tech support and now the fun begins:

ID10Tech: Can we helpya?
AHunter3: Installing your Mac s/w, hangs on ‘configuring your TCP settings’. Can’t connect using orphaned ‘Account Setup’ or ‘Start Babybell.net’ apps.
ID10Tech: Hmm, most weird. Try it again?
(I do. same result)
ID10Tech: What extensions are you running? Are you running ANY non-Apple Extensions or Control Panels?
AHunter3: [No shit. Everyone dces]. I am currently using the ‘Mac OS 8 Base’ Extension set so my couple hundred custom extensions and control panels are not currently loaded and it still does that.
ID10Tech: OK, let’s delete what the installer installed and try again. Delete the Babybell.net folder?
AHunter3: OK. There is also a Babybell.net_Backup folder, should I delete that too?
ID10Tech: Let’s just do this in the order the instructions say, since otherwise I might miss something.
AHunter3: OK (have you ever done this before?)…
ID10Tech: OK, open ‘Macintosh HD’ please
AHunter3: Um, I don’t have a hard drive with that name on this computer. I installed a significantly larger hard drive and partitioned it into 6 separate partitions and none of them are named ‘Macintosh HD’.
ID10Tech: Go to your Desktop. Look above your trash can. See the icon in the upper right hand corner? It should say ‘Macintosh HD’.
AHunter3: [fucking idiot!] Uh…Do you need the hard drive with the active System Folder, the startup hard drive? Or do you want the hard drive onto which I installed the Babybell.net software?
ID10Tech: System Folder, yes, that is where you have to go, the System Folder on ‘Macintosh HD’.
AHunter3: OK, System Folder is open.
ID10Tech: Do you see a folder called ‘Preferences’?
AHunter3: [Why didn’t you just say that? I have an alias in the Apple Menu for instant access]. Yes, shall I open it?
ID10Tech: Yes. Now do you see a folder called ‘Netscape’?
AHunter3: I do.
ID10Tech: Throw that into the trash can.
AHunter3: Uh…I’ve been using Netscape for years and it is full of my settings, secure-site cookies, and bookmarks, so I’m not going to do that.
ID10Tech: Sir, I can’t help you if you don’t let me help you. Our software installs the ‘Netscape’ folder and I need you to delete it so we can proceed
AHunter3: How about I drag it out onto the Desktop?
ID10Tech: It is supposed to go into the trash can.
AHunter3: [Dragging it onto Desktop] Yeah…uh, OK…
ID10Tech: OK, do you see a file called TCP/IP Settings?
AHunter3: Sure do. I set up a setting for DSL for your software to edit.
ID10Tech: Throw TCP Settings into the trash can.
AHunter3: Um, not gonna happen. I have multiple TCP environments and they are all stored in this file. I’ll…uh, never mind, it is gone.
ID10Tech: You trashed it?
AHunter3: Sure I did. Go on…
ID10Tech: Now in the main System Folder, do you see a folder called ‘Eudora’?
AHunter3: Yes.
ID10Tech: Throw that in the trash, too.
AHunter3: Uh…Will this have any effect on the archived emails that I’ve been saving since the dawn of time? Will it mess up my mailboxes, my filters, my 7 different email account personalities?
ID10Tech: Our installer will install any files you need to use Eudora.
AHunter3: OK, go on…[renaming Eudora folder to Eudora(old)]
ID10Tech: Now go into Extensions folder. Do you see a file named “MacPOETModule”?
AHunter3: No, it never got that far. It is inside the Babybell.net_Backup folder I told you about. Should it have been in Extensions?
ID10Tech: I need to do this in a specific sequence. Let’s go on. Do you see a file called “MacPoetINIT”?
AHunter3: That’s in Babybell.net_Backup also. So are a slew of RealMedia Player files and folders, by the way.
ID10Tech: OK, now I’d like you to restart. Hold down the Shift key when you restart.
AHunter3: You want me to restart with Extensions off?
ID10Tech: Yes.
AHunter3: Even though that will disable the CDROM drive, all TCP services, and Ethernet connectivity?
ID10Tech: …ummmm, OK, don’t do that. Just reboot normally.
AHunter3: Using ‘Mac OS 8 Base’ Extension set as before?
ID10Tech: Yes, that is what you should be using.
<reboot>
ID10Tech: OK, double-click the install icon…[walks me through another install. Same results as before]
AHunter3: Um, about these Extensions sitting here in the Babybell.net_backup folder. Might it be true that they should have ended up in Extensions? Should I copy them there manually and reboot?
ID10Tech: I am going to transfer the call to someone better able to help you with this problem.

The “someone” was equally clueless. Impatient, I copied the files into the Extensions folder, rebooted, and double-clicked the Start BabyBell.net and…hey, I’m being asked for a username and password! I’m online!

AHunter3: Excuse me, I, uh, did something else while you were asking me about my ‘Macintosh HD’ and I seem to be online now. But it wants a username and password and I haven’t set one up yet.
ID10Tech2: That’s because you didn’t run setup right.
AHunter3: Listen, it occurs to me…is your installer designed to install files to a specific file path? [very bad behavior for a Macintosh installer]. Would the absence of a volume called ‘Macintosh HD’ throw it off?
ID10Tech2: Well, ‘Macintosh HD’ is the name of your hard drive.
AHunter3: No, ‘Primary’ is my bootup volume, and I installed your software to a different volume called ‘Tertiary’, which contains most of my Internet apps. Does you installer inherently expect to install the applications to the same hard drive as the active system folder?
ID10Tech2: Did you install over a network?
AHunter3: No, they are all local volumes.
ID10Tech2: Well, you have messed up your computer. You should only use one hard drive and it should be called ‘Macintosh HD’.
AHunter3: Can you assign me a username and password? Your setup software would seem to suck but I’m online now and if I had a username and password I could proceed.
ID10Tech2: Sorry I cant’ do that, you’ll have to call [gives 800 number].

Seven phone calls later I had an account.

Entered account info on PC and Mac and successfully logged on using both machines.

Set up hub, attached cables, set up both computers for concurrent use of modem without problem. Set up AppleTalk and NetBIOS over tiny LAN, naming our workgroup for NetBIOS purposes. Cool.

But what a pack of idiots! If I’d listend to them I’d have lost my bookmarks, cookies, email, email account information, spam filters, TCP settings for work and PPP, and god knows what else if I hadn’t solved the problem myself.

2

I wonder, was the 800 number 1-800-WAA-AHHH?

There is no such thing as a painless DSL installation. As soon as you can get over the fact that you didn’t look into it completely, you’ll enjoy it.

And, the average tech support person has to deal with people who know far less than you. They must keep things simple. They’ve got steps to follow, see? Steps that work, when someone doesn’t jack things up by deciding that they know best how to set up a computer. You changed all your settings around? Fine. You deal with it. You wanna know why phone services cost so much these days? It’s cause there’s jackasses on the phone for hours with someone’s tech support, arguing over stuff that they don’t want to do, tying up the lines that other people could be using, causing more infrastructure to be laid, COs to be built out further, ad infinitum.

You think you were annoyed? I would wager my life on the fact that if the tech support person didn’t have his job riding on it, you would have been told in NO uncertain terms to take your secure-site cookies and stuff them up your ass till your throat bulges. You are a Prick Of Misery. A person’s trying to the best of their ability to do their job, and you wanna give them a hard time? Go play in traffic, you little pissant.

In short, waaah fucking waaah. Shut the fuck up, and cancel your dsl line if you’re gonna cry about it. Sell your computer, go to hell, and wait for someone to care about where you are till it fucking snows.

Don’t waste my bandwidth pissing and moaning about it.

Putz.

3

I give that one an 8.9 MrC!

Although, I’d like to say that my DSL install was flawless. No bullshit proprietary software routers or funky settings. Just plug and go. Into the hub, to the nodes, no problemo ese!

Also, I’m intelligent enough not to use a piece of shit G3 machine.

-Sam

4

At least you can get DSL. I will be stuck with shitty dial up hell until late 2001 when they launch 2 way satellite internet sevrice for consumers(if they do). I’ve got a network and share my 56k connection. ugh so slooow.

5

MrCynical, you’re a monkey felcher. Yes, tech support people have steps that work. But, they should also be compotent enough to deal with issues that arise due to the fact that not everyone’s machine is set up the same way. I’ve dealt with stupid support people and very intelligent support people, and there was no excuse for this person’s incompotence.

The fact that the install software was that poorly written is also fairly pathetic.

The fact that the tech equatged having multiple partitions with “you’ve screwed up your computer” means this person has no right to be “helping” people with their problems.

Tech support is NOT the same thing as “Let’s walk the idiot through the install process because he’s too stupid to follow instructions.” Granted, the majority of tech support calls probably deal with this level of idiocy, but the purpose of having a tech support department is also to help reasonably compotent people who have run into a problem and cannot find a solution by themselves.

If a tech asked me to delete all my cookies and TCP settings I’d smack the shit out of them. How many unsuspecting people have lost their cookies and TCP settings as a result of listening to this twerp?

6

Hey Dumbass, (and by dumbass, I mean friedo)

Would you agree that having a hostile iguana licker on the other side of the line might fluster you? I knew you would. And if you wouldn’t, well, you’re fibbing.

The tech probably said that because that was the only way that he could get a shot in without getting fired, you diseased anal grape.

As far as cookies and TCP settings go, if you can’t remember your passwords, you don’t really have any excuse to breathe, dildo. In fact, I delete all of my cookies regularly. I don’t particularly need them.

TCP settings are a snap to replace, if your IQ is higher than that of the typical mollusk. I think that you’ve shown the opposite to be true.

Now, put your head between your legs, and say “POP”. Know what that sound is? It’s the sound of your head coming out of your ass, where it’s been for the last few years. Try not to jam it up there again, mmmmkay? I need to be able to get at it to properly squick some sense into you.

7

all of this sounds so familiar, oh yeah, thats cause i went through it as well. :slight_smile:
yeah, most tech support, for the public that is, seems to be trained only in the simple basic specifics necessary to get the less computer literate going, while those of us with the knowledge to drive starships have to muddle our way into figuring out what we did wrong, or what the software we’re dealing with is doing wrong. My dsl is up and running, and get this, i’ve got it networked for my linux, windows, and mac boxes. i’m as happy as pie with it. good luck with yours.

8

Waaah fucking waaah, huh? :slight_smile: Naaaw, you could with some validity say I’m stupid and dense for not considering that Extensions might work better in the Extensions folder BEFORE I called the shit-for-brains idiots that constitute tech support, but idiots they are nonetheless. The “support” they provided me was inexcusable.

If their software was so buggy that it would only install on and work on an otherwise pristine machine, they should have known that and explained it briefly, along with adequate warnings of the results of trashing the files and folders I was told to trash. As it turns out, only their installer was buggy (the DSL is working fine).

So you want to defend them and call me a Prick of Misery, huh? Any computer user arrogant enough to <gasp> install components that didn’t come with the machine! </gasp> has no right to expect a new commercial product to work, huh? e.g.------>

Mr Customer: I’m having trouble installing your product. The installer hangs and dies.

Mr Cynical: Have you installed any hardware or software since you purchased your computer?

Mr Customer: Just a video card so I could run a larger monitor, and a NIC to network with my old computer.

Mr Cynical: You are obviously a Prick of Misery. You DID THINGS TO YOUR COMPUTER. We don’t want assholes like you using our product. Good-bye!

or ----->

Mr Customer: I can’t get your product to launch. It doesn’t run when I double-click it.

Mr Cynical: Have you ever installed a software product before?

Mr Customer: Of course! Many times!

Mr Cynical: AHA! You ADMIT it! What stupid asinine piece of digital shit did you inflict on your pristine machine, may I ask?

Mr Customer: Uh, well, I installed Microsoft Office.

Mr Cynical: Oh, you iguana-felching Prick of Misery! Of fucking COURSE you can’t get our product to launch. You already INSTALLED SOMETHING ELSE. Now get off my tech support line and ruin someone else’s day instead.

9

See, son, where you’re going wrong is not in installing things, or moving things. It’s that you’re being an asshole to the poor tech guy. A big one. And, I might add, you’re continuing the trend here.

I would advise you to be more patient with the poor guy on the other end of the phone. His job typically sucks, and when you go off on him, you only make it worse, and are less likely to get any help.

That was pretty funny, though. I especially like the gratuitous use of Prick of Misery :slight_smile: It’s one of my favorites.

Shit, You’ve got me smiling. THAT’S NOT RIGHT!!!

Lynx twat.

10

Oh, I didn’t go off on the techs. I suppose I was somewhat abrasive to work with at first, saying things like “Not gonna happen” when told to delete things that are kind of important to me, but once I realized the recipe-following idjits couldn’t handle anything that wasn’t written down on his prompter cards, I just said “uh huh” and dragged the offending file or folder out of the load path but where I could restore it to its proper location and function after the problem was fixed.

Instead, I came here and vented some steam. I know these guys have a hard job. Anyone working in tech support has a hard miserable job. In these folks’ case, they have a hard time tying their shoes in the morning and it only worsens from there, I’m sure, none of which is their immediate fault. I didn’t tell either of them that he was within 3 I.Q. points of a tree stump or too stupid to live.

11

DSL tech support sucks like a tornado. I’d have an easier time playing pick-up-sticks with my buttcheeks than getting a smart tech on the line. I won’t post my hideous experiences here; I already posted a 300+ line thread on another board and I just can’t do it again.

When it works, it’s great. When it doesn’t, nobody fucking cares at SWBell. Even though they are great about not charging you for downtime, they still don’t get it. They’ld rather not charge you, than charge you and have to fix the problems, was the illogical conclusion I reached after 3 weeks of hell sessions with them. Enough said.

12

Bell Atlantic, right?
Tech support from hell 101 - class is in session.

My DSL took 8 weeks to configure and run because the online sales program didn’t register my order, (Although the modem arrived right on time), the salesman I got when I requested a supervisor didn’t reference the original order and restarted the process (An additional 10 days AND another modem), the tech support staff had been instructed to tell anyone running Win2k not to install the software because it didn’t work (It didn’t), the 18 documented hours on hold to speak to tech support (“No, we don’t support NT Server either.”), the installer called and said my line wouldn’t support DSL (Read that as too much trouble to hook up - the Central Office is less than an mile away), 7 phone calls to the president’s office at Bell Atlantic, the amazing response times when the pres gets involved, “No you can’t install this unless you run service pack 3”, “No, you must install service pack 4”, “Oh, you don’t have an account, we’ll start the process over again”, ten more days (And another modem) later it works.

I am never going back to 56k.

This DSL is slicker than snail snot.

Was it a pain in the ass? Hell yes!

Would I do it again? Hell yes!

In fact, I relocated to York, Pa (GTE DSL) and went through the exact same shit, including the shipping of multiple modems.

Tech support sucks. Live with it. You sound smart enough to fix your own stuff.

BTW - I have some White Westell DSL modems for sale…

13

Why does this process seem totally difficult everywhere? I ordered my DSL, I had to wait for the installer(about 3 weeks I’d guess), he came out, attached the pairs, I installed my nics and a hub and I was on the move. Absolutely painless!

Less than a month later I ran all of my Cat-5 cable, installed a few wall jacks, and the job was done.

Why is it so difficult everywhere else?

-Sam

14

Well, that’s how mine worked at first. Then, SW Bell decided that they didn’t want people to pull down more than one IP at a time from their DHCP server, so they implemented “Option 82”, which was by no means an option for me. From what one of the only two techs with a brain told me, it was originally a “freeware” software patch, and then a piece of hardware. For most people this worked OK, all they got when they turned on the second computer was a warning saying they couldn’t get another IP.

But many people were cut off entirely as a result - the smart tech told me that he couldn’t beleive SW Bell did this again after the bad experiences they had in Houston and St. Louis with ol’ 82. They rolled it out, no warning e-mail to anyone, and then the techs act like they never heard of it, and never heard of any problems with it - “I don’t see any case ID’s for this ‘problem’, as you call it”. You call back an hour later, get a different tech, and they say “well, there are about 3000 case ID’s opened for the same problem right now”.

To summarize HOURS of calls I made that were some of the most furstrating in my life:

  1. It’s your fault - it’s your computer, your lines, your Windows install, your TCP/IP stack - it is never SW Bell’s fault.

  2. Before we will even consider the inconceivable possibility that it is SW Bells fault, you must play all sorts of demeaning 20-questions games and trials with the tech (now, make absolutely sure your line is plugged in). Then, we will INSIST on things like “you MUST re-install Windows networking support” and strongly urge you to even try re-installing Windows before we will “escalate” the call.

  3. If by some freak of nature it is SW Bells fault, we will not tell you that it’s a problem other people are having as well. We will not give you an ETA on fixing, we will not give you a status report, and even though 3 people will promise it, we will not ever contact you directly, even to say it is fixed. And once your call has been escalated, we will not help you anymore. So if it works, you’ll know it - if not, don’t call back is how another person put it.

And finally, point 4) Yes, I know that under my terms of service I am only allowed 1 IP address. That’s not my beef - their abominable service is. If SW Bell really just wanted to limit IP’s because they are running out, they could have just assigned everyone a single static IP. But what they want you to do is upgrade to the $79/month 5-static IP option instead. So it’s all about money.

Arrrrgggh! At least it’s been working (sporadically) for a few days now.

15

I telecommute and the computer supplied by my employer runs Windows NT. The initial installation and set up of BellSouth’s ADSL service went very well. I was connected as a “bridged customer” about a week after placing the order. The installation tech instructed me to always emphasize that I used NT when talking to a service tech and I have always done just that.
Six months later, following a severe thunderstorm, the modem appeared to be working but I absolutely could not connect to the internet. A call to the help desk resulted in my being instructed to insert the CD that came with the modem and to run a program called “Enclean.” Following this, I was instructed to re-install the modem drivers. Attempts to do so were met with some very strange error messages—the tech kept saying “I’ve never seen that before.” After an hour or so of repeated failures, a visit by a tech was scheduled. When the tech arrived at my house, he almost immediately asked if I had run the “Enclean” program. When I said yes, he looked as if I had punched him in the stomach and then informed me that “Enclean” should never be run on an NT system as it totally screwed the registry AND some critical files within NT. A review of my call to the help desk revealed that the help tech had instructed me to run the program so BellSouth had to assume the liability. The end result was that my hard drive had to be wiped and reformatted and then every program I used had to be reinstalled. So, that one huge mistake by the help tech cost me a weeks work and robbed my employer of my services during that week. Not to mention the fact that I had to drive 150 miles to deliver the computer to our IS department for all the work that had to be done and then drive another 150 miles back home. Then I had to wait two more days for an installation tech to come out and install a new modem.
Still, I absolutely love DSL—I don’t feel the same about BellSouth’s help desk.

16

You guys are all using a funky Modemcard? I use no software whatsoever, and have an outboard modem. I think they’re all like this in the Bay Area, whether you have one IP or not.

Also, it’s funny that they use dynamic addresses in your regions. We all get separate static IP’s, and I have the “expanded” package with 3 or 5 IP’s(of course one of those is required by the service, so I don’t exactly get what I’m paying for).

-Sam

17

I know lots more about DSL processes than the average bear. I could tell you stories about botched installs that would curl your hair. Lots of 'em :slight_smile: