Post 66 sets out why the police did not confront the anarchists while the anarchists were in black block formation.
As far as false/bluff charging the mob goes, the police chief explained that at the press conference that you mentioned – it kept the mob from advancing toward the conference and encouraged the mob to dissapate.
How many serious injuries where there to peaceful protesters who followed the dispersal directions/orders given by the police?
“Don’t bring logic and reason into it!! I just want to smash stuff because of all the injustice!!!”
The goons remind me of the scene in ‘Life of Brian’ where the two separatist factions encounter each other in their attempts to kidnap Pilate’s wife.
Interestingly, it seems that a few people tried. From Marcus Gee’s column in today’s online Globe and Mail (which, BTW, has some great photos of the anarchists):
But these people don’t seem to be protestors of any sort. Baffle, you were on the scene. Did you witness any attempts by protestors to get the anarchists to stop the destruction?
You’re a damned idiot. Are you completely unfamiliar with the concept of franchises? Smashing up your local Starbucks doesn’t cost the corporation a cent. It gets paid by the franchisee. Are you trying to con us into believing that those thugs looked up the net worth of the owner of every shop they trashed?
And to intimate that destroying somebody property is acceptable if the person is wealthy is absolutely reprehensible. It looks like you just showed us your true colours.
You know what? Fuck all this shit. I was watching CTV and at one point, the reporter started freaking out and yelling ‘get back, get back!’ and the news correspondent at the studio was asking what was happening and then there was silence from the reporter for a few seconds, then ‘they set the news van on fire!’.
I don’t care if you are an innocent protester, once shit like that starts happening you get out or else you’re getting the police action like everyone else.
I prefer to differentiate between ‘Thugs’ and ‘Protesters’. My dividing line is based entirely on having the balls to show your face and take responsibility for your actions while making your point. Anonymous vandalism, violence, intimidation are the tools of the thugs. Peaceful demonstration, whether ‘against’ something you believe is an injustice or ‘for’ something you believe would make society better, is the hallmark of the protester.
I’m pretty sure that Baffle considers anyone wealthy, as long as they have more money than HIM. It doesn’t much matter to him that Joe Boggs, Tim Hortons Franchise has loans coming out the wazoo to pay for his franchise, or that he probably works 80 + hours a week, or that he’s creating jobs by having his business open. He is more successful than Baffle and therefore deserves to have his property ruined and shame on him for complaining, or even owning it in the first place.
The houses whose gardens were raided for rocks, and whose trash/recycling bins were raided for objects that could be thrown. I doubt very much that they are occupied by corporations; rather, by a worker of some sort. At the very least, there was trespass.
And this morning, the news is showing me crowds of people outside the detention centre. It looks like it is normally a quiet, residential street; likely populated by workers. Their cars are parked on the street. In fairness, I saw no destruction of private property, but given that there was a large crowd facing a line of riot-ready police, the potential was there. And not a corporation in sight.
No, it looks to me like they are simply out for mayhem. The media is reporting that the anarchists are basically congratulating each other for various acts of destruction. What, do they keep score? “I got three Starbucks; how many Tim Hortons did you get?”
Damn. And I thought it was bad when we had the summit here in Pittsburgh.
I’m sorry, I wasn’t clear in my last post. I believe I have more in common with the workers of other countries than the wealthy people in my own. There are 20 leaders at the G20 conference, one of which is the leader of a country that gave away seven hundred times the security bill of this conference, without regulation, to a group of wealthy people who either made egregious mistakes, or are in fact incredibly evil. Yes, it was a couple years ago, and yes, I’m still angry. I do not want to see it again.
I do believe the politicians act against the interest of the working class and the young people in our society. Unfortunately, youth and workers are less likely to vote than other groups, and politicians court votes. They’re also less likely to be able to gift large political donations (such as the $1000 a plate dinners where you get face time with your candidate), which unfortunately give the wealthier more influence over political candidates. I have no proof of deeper corruption being widespread in our government, though the recent front-page stories about Rahim Jaffer don’t inspire confidence.
I’m probably one of the few people one this board who actually has made a citizen’s arrest (in the course of my duty as a security guard, one of those great jobs I’ve taken to stave off starvation). I’m still not willing or comfortable confronting a group of masked men armed with sticks and bricks who have demonstrated a capacity for violence. I’m even less likely to do it when the real police are right there. I have limits, unfortunately.
Not exactly. Preliminary estimates were of 25,000 people at the Queen’s Park rally, though I haven’t come across a more accurate published count. If you have a cite for your number, I’d like to see it. 25,000 people at a rally is a huge number, it’s certainly the biggest one I’ve ever been at.
Sorry, I missed posts 66-68 upon the original reading… it’s kind of hard to keep up with the amount of posts in this thread so far.
It’s hard to be sure what the black bloc guys were marching for – they’re not an organized group but rather a bunch of people who brought black clothes and formed up in different places. Here is the call-out from one of the anarchist groups that was likely involved in the actions – you’ll notice they’re not even espousing an ideology, they’re just inviting anyone who has an ideology to attempt to influence through destruction. ‘Black bloc’ is a technique of violent protest, not a particular group.
Dye pack would have been awesome, though – targeted well, of course. Drop it right in the middle of the group and just let them try to hide. 
This makes some sense as to why they wouldn’t descend on the group as a whole. Hell, I can just imagine all of the videos of “police brutality” that would spring up from that fight. I’m not sure why they left the van there in the anarchists’ path at all, though.
I’ve been thinking of an answer to this question for a while, and I was more or less thinking along these lines, but you nailed it more succinctly that my draft, Le Ministre. I certainly agree with your answer to the question.
“Yeah! Let’s do away with private ownership. Let the people collectively own things! And we need better democracy too–the ballot box just encourages politicians who, by definition, are neither “workers,” nor “people.” so we need some sort of government that allows us to shut others up if we disagree with them. Eventually, they’ll learn and the state will wither away.”
“Hey, I’ve got an idea–let’s set up a Democratic People’s Republic! How can a country with such a name ever go wrong?”
It’s one thing to peacefully protest, say, global warming or unemployment policies. It is quite another to attempt a Communist/Marxist revolution. I’d suggest that no matter what the moderate and peaceful protestors had planned; that the anarchists were attempting a revolution, and had no intention of making any points other than that.
Besides which, a healthy banking system is in Joe Boggs’s best interests. Without banks, Joe has no way to keep his cash flow working through a line of credit (among other bank offerings); and without that, he cannot pay–guess who?-- his workers and suppliers who, in turn have their own workers, and so on and so on.
Time to take back the streets from anarchists.
People were pushed down and stepped on – by other protesters and by police. There had been no dispersal instructions by the police at this point – at least, none that I heard. The police were issued “sound cannons” for this precise purpose, and the protest was very noisy, so it’s no wonder that if they were just shouted, they went unheard. There was no communication from the police before, during, or after their attacks/retreats.
There were a few who shouted condemnations. More were smart enough to leave the area. Some weren’t violent or destructive but were angry that the police wanted them (the peaceful protesters) to vacate. (“Whose streets? Our streets!”) And some people stuck around, some with cameras, to watch for any signs of police brutality, and try to catch it on tape. It didn’t help that it took place in Queen’s Park – the news had (erroneously) reported/implied that it had been declared a “free speech zone” and a lot of protesters were offended that the police were trying to move them out of there too.
You took that sentence out of context; it was trying to explain the anarchist’s mind set. You can’t exactly expect these people to have a nuanced understanding of corporations and franchises – they simply attack the symbols of capitalism.
I don’t think it’s trespass unless you don’t leave when asked. But you make a good point.
I wasn’t present for either of these parts of the protest – the projectile search or the gathering outside the detention center. The blame can’t be laid 100% on the protesters. Yes, the police need a place to hold the violent rioters, but wherever they chose to build that place, they need to realize it’ll cause disruption in the neighbourhood, and they share a portion of the blame for it.
Yes, they’re out for mayhem. But it is political mayhem nevertheless. It’s a method of protest, just not a legitimate method as far as you and I are concerned.
Why yes. You are so smart. You have nailed me to a T. :rolleyes:
Wrong.
But I could see how you might object to the latter.
But they were throwing rocks! According to you if there was ever a case for justifiable homicide this one probably heads the list. Right? Mr Civilized.
Steve Paikin’s twitter feed. He is a TVO journalist who was in the middle of one unprovoked police attack, and later arrested in another.
The link on his most recent tweet has some interesting pictures – the red banner in the 4th and 5th pictures is the socialist group I started the march behind. He’s claiming the photo was taken at 3:03 pm – I was half a narrow block south at Spadina and Richmond then (about 25 yards away) and saw none of that.
Who are the working class? Is the guy who owns a Tim Horton’s franchise a fat cat capitalist who exploits the workers? How about any other small business owner? A mom and pop restaurant? Who are these people that the government acts against?
Re, young people: Tell me, were you denied a free (paid for by the tax payer and facilitated by government) education through grade 12? Did you take advantage of that education? If not, who is to blame for that? In Canada we have subsidized (paid for by the taxpayer and facilitated by the government) higher education. Did you take advantage of that? If not, who is to blame for that?
I too am on the job hunt. If I don’t find a job why is it anyone’s fault but myself? If I look for a position that I’m not qualified for, and don’t get it, how can I bitch and moan about it? If I don’t get a position I am qualified for, does it mean that no one got that position? Obviously, someone did. But should I blame the company? The person who got the job? The government? Why not myself?
You do realize that most people have jobs, right? They are not all part of a conspiracy to deny you one, nor are the companies who would like to hire you if you can prove to them that your abilities will help them achieve their goals. If you can’t do that it isn’t their fault. No one owes you a job. You have to demonstrate that the wage the company pays you is worth being spent on you and not something or someone else.
Jesus! Assuming what you say is true, who’s fault is that? I’d say it isn’t the governments and I’d also say that it isn’t your responsibility to protest the government for some nebulous, unfathomable reason to compensate for their lack of motivation to uphold their own rights eg. getting off their asses and voting.
And I’m another one. Yet, I took the job for the same reasons and made Security Manager with no more than a grade 10 education and a few years in the infantry. Whose fault was it that I only had a grade 10 education? Certainly not the governments as the doors remained open at the school after I left and they didn’t kick me out through them. I walked out under my own power.