The TROLL question

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1

This is driving me nuts. What is the “official” word on how or even if we can discuss trolls and banned posters.

I understand that outing suspected trolls and sockpuppets on the board is discouraged. But now I’ve seen one poster saying we have been told time and time again to never mention trolls and banned posters. Now it seems the “official” word is to not ask why someone has been banned.

Somebody please state what is the “official” stance on:

  1. Outing trolls and suspected sockpuppets.
  2. Asking why someone was banned.
  3. Talking about a troll, sockpuppet or banned poster.
  4. Will I be called out because I used the word “troll” in my subject?

Thanks in advance.

2

I never saw any “official” word on not asking why someone was banned, all I saw was DDG going out of her way to tell me it was “official”.

Like I said - I don’t care anymore after today. The only reason I cared today with Jetassissted was I spent all that time typing a post to respond to him in GQ.

I’m fucking tired of it. I don’t know whether to bother answering anyone with less than 300 or so posts, because they may just turn out to be concrete or Serlin, and I’ll just be wasting my time. And that would be sad to ignore all those bright, friendly, new posters.

I thought at one time UncleBeer posted that action would be taken with concrete’s ISP, but I don’t know if anything constructive happened as a result.

It seems like the only thing that could possibly work is to post all personal information gathered about frequent abusive trolls, such that people with too many computer skills and too much time on their hands can make them pay, ala vigilante justice. But I know that cannot be done. Sigh.

3

Hey, Anthracite how are you doing?

I’m asking the question for my own benefit. I’ve seen a few people state that there are “official” rules. I’d like to get the lowdown from a mod or admin. so that I know. This is a nice place and I would like to play by the rules. Only I have to know what they are first.

How was your trip? I hope you’re feeling better.

4

Do The Nice Thing = DTNT and don’t worry about it.

I do not do wrong by accident. I know when I’m doing it usually.

I see people say, (more than one) to not ask anymore. Seems simple to me. I am courious and want to know but will wait until I can ask in email of someone that will know.

If I want to know the rules in real detail, that just means I’m looking for a way around them.

I want to be ‘special’ and know all the dirt. I only need to look in the mirror.

If I pay any attention at all, I seem to do alright at any forum I go to.

5

Wow. The exact opposite of myself. I don’t set out to do wrong, and I don’t do wrong being willfully ignorant of the rules. Thus, almost all times I do wrong are by accident.

Depends on who says it. Define “False Authority Syndrome” : I say “do not post anymore here”. What weight do my words carry? Not a whole hell of a lot. So should you stop posting? Hopefully not.

Wow again. The exact opposite of myself and most people, who use rules to determine what the proper and expected limits are of behavior and good taste.

6

I’m doing OK, much better since my Pit rant that generated so many good wishes and positive reinforcement for me. Thank you for asking.

7

CatBiker, thanks for your imput, although I sense a slight dig here. Do you think I’m looking for a way around the rules? Have I ever given any evidence of trying to slide around them?

I just want to know what the board policy is on these matters. Once I know the rules in real detail, you can then look for signs that I am searching my way around them.

8

And I would also like to thank CatBiker for the input as well as the imput.

Glad to hear you’re doing better, Anthracite.

9

Anthracite,

More than the banned poster will read your posts and will appreciate your responses, regardless of the status of the poster who started the thread. I don’t recognize the style of JetAssist, but then again, I don’t really care either. I thought the question was interesting and it didn’t look to me like it was posted as a way of trolling.

Maybe you could look at their registration date (recent registry) versus number of posts? Just an idea from someone who’ll never break the big poster barrier :). Glad you survived your trip ok.

Biggirl, for the “official stance” of the items on your list, you might want to do a search using the words banned or troll, looking in ATMB. The tolerance level for these issues has dropped quite a bit in the last few months (IMHO), and you might be able to “pick up on” the level of acceptance of discussion in that manner. I might be able to point you to the thread where it is clearly stated that there are to be no postings/threads created just to “out” a troll or sockpuppet.

Although I can’t remember if it’s been stated explicitly, I believe the suggested method of asking about a banning is to email a mod or administrator.

Lastly, I believe that posting discussions about these issues is not encouraged because it just feeds the ego of the troll/puppet/bannee. These are the insights that I’ve picked up from reading ATMB regularly, YMMV.

10

Look, Una, all I know is, I was gone for 3 months, okay? And when I came back at the end of November, there were references here and there to the fact that we’re not supposed to “out” sock puppets anymore. Nothing specific, just a general feeling. Before I left, I remember that the mods had already been trying to get us to e-mail them with our suspicions, but now it seemed like it was a definite semi-official policy. Also, it seemed there were a lot of posts from people like Coldfire and Uncle Beer here in ATMB, telling people, “E-mail a mod–don’t post it.” For example, in this thread. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=52254

So I’ve been trying to do my part to be a Good Doo-Bee and help the general feeling along, here and there, by pointing out to people, “Hey, you should just e-mail a mod and ask about this.”

Then this “I want to be a troll hunter!” thread came up in the Pit, and I posted:

And Alphagene posted:

Okay? When Alphagene tells me not to “out” sock puppets anymore, I listen.

Here’s the link to the thread with Ed Zotti’s quote, (it’s Satan’s “DNFTT” Pit thread from November 1, which I hadn’t read, since by November 24 it was way, way down in the Archives):
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=44538

I’m truly sorry if it seemed like I was “going out of my way” to yell at you. :frowning: I was just trying to be helpful to the board overall. It does seem to be working, you know, this policy of not “outing” trolls and sock puppets. When I left, there were lots of those shrill and pointless “you’re a troll/sock puppet!” “Am not!” “Are too!” threads, which took up a lot of space. It’s much quieter now.

To address the OP, Biggirl, I think the general stance is, no more of those threads that go, “So-and-So is a sock puppet!” Or threads that go, “Does anybody else see a startling resemblance between the posts of This Newbie and That Banned Poster?” I think it’s not so much the threads accusing people of being trolls, as it is the speculative threads accusing people of being Banned Posters Returning Under Another Name, i.e. Sock Puppets. I think you can talk about “trolls” and “trolling” all you want, as long as you don’t mention any names. The trouble is, you may be terribly discreet in your OP, and not mention any names, but the posters who come after you might not have as much self-discipline, and the next thing you know, some sock puppet has his feelings hurt and he’s making messes all over the boards.

Better not to say anything at all, is what I think.

And Lost has a good point–catch up on your ATMB reading, there’s been a lot of discussion on this very issue in the last month.

11

Yes, DDG, but I did not do any of the things you mentioned or went out of your way to link to. Will you acknowledge that?

I did not “out” anyone. I did not “accuse” anyone. Hellfire, woman, I did not even suspect anyone.

All I did was ask, ex post facto, who they were - after they had been reported, investigated, and banned - not before. And FTR, as per my other thread, I was not involved in any of those aforementioned activities behind the scenes either.

Are we on the same topic here? By being banned, they are already “outed”. Where did I violate any of the things you post about? It sounds like you are applying to me - rightfully, perhaps, but I don’t think officially - a custom extention to all of the previous admonishments about “outings”.

I only asked because in general I am frustrated as hell with dealing with these trolls, and spending my time trying to help these sociopaths. And I wanted to try to recognize better which “sociopath of the week” I had answered.

I’m well aware of the admonishments about outings - I do actually care to be an upstanding member of this community, and do pay attention to things the Admins and Mods say. It struck me that you were talking down to me, when in fact my specific action is one that was not diretly addressed by the previous admonishments, and I guess was in a “gray area”, the merits of said action being very dependent on the person and circumstances and manner in which the question was asked.

You should know me better than that by now, and give me the benefit of the doubt. :frowning:

12

I don’t think that answering any poster in GQ, as long as their question is legitimate and not obvious trolling, is a waste of time, regardless of who they are or whether they will be banned. For instance, this thread in GQ, which was started by Jetassisted, contains some wonderfully informative answers, especially the one by Rodd Hill, though there are other good ones as well. If the people who had responded to that thread had known ahead of time that Jetassisted was a new incarnation of a banned person (I’m assuming here) and chosen not to respond based upon that, I’d be poorer for not having read the answers, and I wouldn’t even know it.

Fighting ignorance does not just benefit the questioner; when it is done well it betters us all.

13

Hello to all,

People are so touchy about this subject. I haven’t accused anyone of anything, I just want to know The Straight Dope!

  1. Outing trolls. As I mentioned in the OP, I know starting threads that say so-and-so is a sockpuppet is not appreciated. I have seen the mods and admins stating that they would prefer an e-mail. I just thought it would be nice to have all this info in one handy-dandy post.

2.Asking why someone was banned. I don’t know the official stance on this. Do the mods and admins not what this discussed on the boards? Should you e-mail them? Will they tell you to mind your own buisness if you ask?

3.Talking about sockpuppets, trolls and banned posters. I, for one will not let a troll censor me. However, I will let the mods and admins censor me, if they feel it is neccessary. I think it is the height of paranoia to refuse to speak of a sockpuppet, troll or banned poster for fear of stroking their egos and I will continue to mention them if I feel like it-- until a mod or an admin tells me not to.

4.This has been answered. Some people are troll crazy. Just put the word “troll” in your subject and watch the sparks fly.

14

There’s a type of poster that comes to the this board looking for attention. Good or bad, doesn’t matter, it’s all about getting some electrons tied up on their behalf.

We really want to discourage this kind of poster on our board.

We’ve also had some continuing problems with people that we have removed from the board for violations of forum rules.

We don’t want those people around here either.

The best policy is to give these problem children as little attention as possible. This is not only to thwart them but also because having the uproar that kicks in around discovering them and enforcement of forum rules is by itself annoying and counterproductive.

If you want to know why someone was banned, drop an administrator an email and ask. Usually we’ll tell you. And if you think someone on the board is a returning PITA or if you see bad behavior before we do, drop us an email and tell us of your concerns. It’s better for the emotional health of the board that this sort of thing be confined to email, we prefer to handle these situations privately.

Understand that we’re here to attract and keep visitors, not throw them out wholesale. When we ban someone from the board, it’s for good reason.

And yes, sometimes even the biggest jerk can make a decent post. When I see that, it just makes me sadder that this person believes forum rules don’t apply to them. And it’s a question of balance; frankly, there’s some, the rare good comment or great question is not worth all the crap they bring in with it. We’re aware that we lose good stuff that way, but we also lose the bad and if there’s more bad than good, then we still came out ahead.

your humble TubaDiva
Administrator

15

Here’s the link and quote for the official info.Ed’s post on Satan’s DNFTT pit thread

16

A lot of good input here. LOL

I guess it is the way I was raised. If I go to someone else’s house, I go by their rules. This forum is a private house IMO with an open door policy. IMO, I still need to play by their rules. If I want to invoke the law of the land, I need to go to a public place, like outside and do my ‘free speech’ thing.

Yeah, BigGirl, it was a little dig. Sorry if I hurt you by it. :: shrug, I’m not always cool about things. ::::

Anti, we could have some great discussions about ‘doing right and doing wrong’ but I don’t communicate well by the written word. I do better with talking face to face, not much better but some. :wink: I will not fence with you. I read your stuff and know that you are a force to be reckoned with.
3½¢ * I have never gotten out of a ‘ticket’ by being ignorant of the law but I have by being pleasent and smiling.* :wink:

[Edited by TubaDiva on 12-27-2000 at 11:26 AM]

17

Since I know officially now this is our policy, I hear and obey without question. Thank you Tuba.

18

A force to be reckoned with? LOL, oh yeah, I might bore you or depress you to death, if that’s what you mean.

19

Yes, yes, okay, okay, pax!! :smiley: I know, I know, all you did was ask, “Why was So-and-So banned?” It’s just that it seems that for the last month, there’s been a constant stream of “Why was So-and-So banned?” ATMB threads, some started by actual innocent newbies, but some by posters who should know better. And before you know it, the thread has escalated into a name-calling slapfest, because frequently some people feel a deep psychological need to use the opportunity to take a few potshots at the mods and admins, and next thing you know you’ve got Pit threads all over the place. And also, sometimes those threads, both ATMB and Pit, are suspiciously chock-full of just-registered newbies with inflammatory or derisive user names. It seems like the “Why was he banned?” question just gives evildoers an opening for mayhem, which they pounce on with delight. So I was just trying to get the lid onto the grease fire before the stove exploded, okay?

And hey, when I talk down to people, they generally know it immediately, because I always preface my remarks with, “Hey, stupid! Yeah, you with the pointy head!” But I didn’t say that to you, now did I? :smiley: And I did give you the benefit of the doubt; I treated you with the respect I accord a senior poster. All I gave you was the “word to the wise” Cliff’s Notes version–the wide-eyed newbies get the whole lecture. :smiley:

I’m frustrated with these people, too. I don’t like driving all over Google looking for a GQ answer for somebody who’s banned by the time I get back. That actually happened to me once, and man, was it annoying! Stupid clump of fecal matter. Go back to the rectum from whence you came.

And yes, in theory I do agree that it’s always good to Fight Ignorance, but the SDMB is also about relationships with the other posters, and it gives you a warm feeling to find an answer for somebody, and then later he finds an answer for you, and so it goes. This chain of–dare I call it “friendship”?–is broken when you come back with your answer, only to find that the OP now has BANNED under his name. “Oh, I guess we won’t be friends after all, he was only a troll [sigh].”

As for “spending…time trying to help these sociopaths”, golly, Una, I don’t really believe it’s possible. There’s just always going to be a percentage of the human race that gets its jollies out of smashing the pumpkins on your front porch, and the best you can do is just work around them.

[Fed Ex truck pulls up outside TubaDiva’s house, delivers 20 large boxes of Godiva chocolates, with a red and white musical teddy bear; Tuba squeezes its tummy and it sings,
“All around the cathedral
the saints and apostles
look down as you hear our prayers,
Although you can’t see it,
you know they are smiling
each time Tuba shows that she caa-aaarres…”]

20

Suuuure, I’ve seen videos of what happens when a spark is applied to powdered versions of your namesake…the flames shot out a good 50’ past the opening of the mine. :wink: