a) he like to think himself the winner
b) he has to keep repeating this in order for himself to believe it - as if him saying it is enough for it to be true.
c) the people he’s talking to (his ‘base’) believe what he says above all else, even when he contradicts himself in the same breath
Other than Romney, Collins, Murkowski, and maybe Sasse, which other Republican senator would vote Yes on impeachment conviction?
Not Mike Braun, or Josh Hawley.
Trump had to campaign for them last year.
Collins votes No but with a furrowed brow. Romney might be a No if he thinks he can get a Cabinet appointment in exchange for it.
Hawley gets marked as an abstention when he gets lost on the way back from the bathroom.
Mike Lee of Utah.
Richard Burr and Thom Tillis of North Carolina.
I can see Ted Cruz deciding to shank Trump, too.
Lamar Alexander’s name has been mentioned.
Corey Gardiner is in trouble and may crack.
Chuck Grassley may have had enough by now.
James Lankford has been squirming some.
Martha McSally is in a weak position.
That’s all I can think of for now. Good start, though.
So because Trump did them a solid, they won’t backstab him? Because he’s so loyal to everyone?
Romney is savvy enough to not take a cabinet position in the Trump administration. And he won’t be primaried either for his Senate position. But he is willing to tolerate Trump for a more favorable Supreme Court, so I wouldn’t count on his vote.
Collins will not survive an impeachment vote. Either she gets primaried for voting yes or loses the general for voting no. The only way she can stay in office is if there’s no impeachment vote at all, and it still will be a struggle for her. Her brow will remain furrowed for the foreseeable future.
If Trump was campaigning for them, it was because they believe that their voters are Trump backers. And if their voters are Trump backers, opposing Trump takes a lot more political courage than supporting Trump. Loyalty has nothing to do with it. Furthermore, they can choose to be loyal and decent even if Trump is neither.
Or, they can do what’s best for their country and enjoy the last four years of their terms with their consciences at peace.
“Consciences”, you say.
They are representatives, so 2 year terms. And I didn’t say to whom or what they should owe their loyalty and decency.
No, they’re senators – we’re debating which R senators might actually vote to convict.
My mistake, Akaj. Thanks for the correction.
No worries! I actually have no insight into which R senators might flip on Trump, but I’m hoping 40% of them have their loyalty in the right place.
If Trump ends up going to prison, and he should go to prison because he’s a criminal, I’m very much looking forward to the posts from his supporters on these boards. Because you know they will never give up on him. Ever. I predict we’ll have a smattering of deep state conspiracies, a few rigged justice system, and a little bit of he should still be president even from prison.
I’d say the average Doper has above-average intelligence and curiosity. I can see why Republican Dopers want more proof or information that is unassailable and not obviously partisan spin, whether good or bad. For the most part they’ve stopped trying to defend the indefensible, at least on this particular thread. Whether it’s because they’ve finally heard evidence that they can’t find any way to overlook, or whether they are tired of arguing, I don’t know. But I hope and believe it’s the former. It’s no longer possible to give the benefit of the doubt without some major contortions.
Yesterday at his cabinet meeting spectacle/rant Trump referred to “the phony Emolluments clause.” So now the Constitution is part of the conspiracy.
I saw that quote in an article that said various prominent GOP folks, including major donors, were concerned about Trump’s “erratic” behaviour and lack of a coherent defense to impeachment. They want an establishment Republican named as chief of staff to get an impeachment war room generating a disciplined defense, and reining in Trump. Someone from the White House dismissed the idea of any changes, and said those Republicans do that every time there’s a crisis. Which, of course, is hilarious and horrifying, much like the entire Trump presidency.
Geoff Bennett, NBC News:
To follow the theme:
“The senior U.S. diplomat in Ukraine said Tuesday he was told release of military aid was contingent on public declarations from Ukraine that it would investigate the Bidens and the 2016 election, contradicting President Trump’s denial that he used the money as leverage for political gain.
…
Taylor walked lawmakers through a series of conversations he had with other U.S. diplomats who were trying to obtain what one called the “deliverable” of Ukrainian help investigating Trump’s political rivals.
…
“Amb. Sondland also told me that he now recognized that he had made a mistake by earlier telling the Ukrainian officials to whom he spoke that a White House meeting with President Zelensky was dependent on a public announcement of investigations — in fact, Amb. Sondland said, ‘everything’ was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance,’” Taylor told House investigators.”
Here is Taylor’s opening statement (PDF):