The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

I’ll check what the Trump’s admitted to later but the full story in the original case against him was that the Trump Organization ran a special event at their golf course, with a $1 million prize if anyone hit a hole in one. Someone did.

Trump refused to pay out, was sued by the winner, lost the case, and was ordered to give his personal money to charity since the winner didn’t want Trump’s money anymore, he was so disgusted by the man (or something).

Rather than pay, he took money from his own charity and rather than give money, he spent the money at a charity auction to buy the painting of himself.

The self-dealing is the part where he uses money that people granted to his charity to pay off the legal suit that he lost. Traditionally, that’s what we would call theft. If you’re sharing an apartment with four other people, and you all have a thing where you donate money to a jar to help pay for groceries for the group, but you never do, and you take the money to finance buying food for yourself and your girlfriend, the fact that you are buying food and the money was intended for buying food doesn’t stop what you are doing from being theft. Your roomies could send you to jail.

Trump did that at a scale of a million dollars. At those prices, thievery becomes self-dealing, embezzlement, etc. because the sorts of people who do it have good enough lawyers and look sufficiently presentable in court that it’s nearly impossible to get a jury to send them to jail. If the government tried to charge them with criminal theft, they’d all go free. In cases like that, the government creates lesser crimes and penalties, forgiving you if you pay the money back, close your charity and agree to never run one again, etc. But, at the end of the day, embezzlement is just the same crime as an employee taking some cash out of a cash register. Maybe not in the court system. But it is all just plain robbery.

Thievery, though, is just the crime in the matter.

We should also note that Trump didn’t or couldn’t pay the $1 million to begin with. Was he actually desperate for money? In our apartment example, what is the likelihood that the thief is flush with cash? More likely, he’s in a hole. But we can bet that that’s not what he’s telling the girls that he dates.

Trump campaigned on the idea that he was a capable, organized, successful leader of large organizations. As it is, he might just be a person that steals a little bit of money from here, a little bit there, and refuses to pay his bills - forcing those who expected to earn a living from working with him to go off and starve after many hard months of work. And while, yes, it would be true that his businesses do continue to exist and operate thanks to all of that, I wouldn’t classify that as successful operation any more than I would the USSR, because it was able to squeak by for a few decades.

He campaigned as having an eye to reducing the amount of corruption in Washington DC. But he hired people who were all corrupt, broke all of Obama’s anti-corruption policies to keep lobbyists out of the White House, hasn’t (to my knowledge) suggested any policies nor laws to reduce corruption in DC, and as we note from the story he seems to be a simple thief - the sort of person who would love and encourage corruption, not fight it.

From an impeachment standpoint, if the President lied his way all the way through the campaign, telling the people that he was the exact opposite sort of person as he actually is and had the exact opposite policy as he days he does, it would be fair to say that that is criminal fraud. If you tell me you’re a doctor and then you prove to have been a pump worker at a sewage plant, and you were putting your fingers in my wife’s orifices, I would report you to the police and you would be charged with fraud and assault and battery.

The case of the painting isn’t definitive on Trump being strapped for cash. He may have just hated the guy who won the prize.

But even when he was forced to pay, he used Vince McMahon’s money to do so. And we see him doing things like not paying contractors, allowing his personal lawyer to rat him out to the Feds rather than help pay his legal fees, etc. There’s enough circumstantial evidence floating around that it would be reasonable to guess that the man’s businesses are running in the red. Certainly, the a White House hasn’t become more fiscally responsible, and the citizens are paying through the nose to finance all of Trump’s lawyers, to handle the large swathes of cases against him and his government.

If you campaign as wanting to save the rain forest and, getting in office, the first thing you do is send planes out to start fire bombing Brazil, and going on TV, cackling that “You all believed me! What a bunch of rubes!” Again, that would be criminal fraud, and an impeachable offense.

They clearly forgot to ask to hear from Linda Tripp, QAnon, and Jeffrey Epstein.

This shows how seriously the Republicans are taking this.

Howard Baker (R-TN) – famous for asking “What did the president know and when did he know it?” – must be rolling in his grave.

Well, the funny thing about that phrase is that Baker was probably implying that Watergate was simply a rogue operation that Nixon didn’t know anything about, and so he was setting things up for anyone but Nixon to take the fall. And yet, it has come to mean a commitment to getting to the bottom of a controversial matter without regard for politics.

Much like how Ford’s quote about impeachable crimes being anything the Congress wants them to be. Ford didn’t actually mean literally anything, but that’s how people now understand it.

Mulvaneys lawyer is named Pittard? Hoisted!

So if the Repubs want to hear from young Biden, and if he chooses to ignore the subpoena, then what?

Then the GOP declare that not showing up proves he’s guilty of manufacturing the phone call, the witch hunt, the fake news, and Dotard claims presidency for life. :smiley:

Since the GOP does all the opposite things that the dems do, this seems reasonable.

Do you have proof that trump was not being coerced into such behaviors? Without such proof how do we really know anything?

Seriously though thank you for pointing this out: Trinp has been lying to the nation with cunning and to get specific outcomes, as a job seeker with us, the american people, and yet most discussions start out with the basic assumption that: we deserve it; he has the right; and the voters who voted for him would be disenfranchised if we call it wrong.

If you act like you deserve it you will get it.

We need a voters union. Campaign lies don’t just affect those who voted for the winner, but those who voted against him too, even more so. They have to be represented. THey don’t lose all interests in the administration. Their interest is actually greater. His promises got him elected so if they are false then the lies were weaponized to take over the government by fraud.

This is the actual real life version of the rebupkis pathetic attempt to call “coup!” and go back to the dossier or something, as if it were possible to unring the bell. It is a real coup to lie to take over the government.

That proves he hacked Hillary’s emails, or something.

As I understand it, Republican witnesses can be rejected by a vote and also if the White House continues to not cooperate by stopping witnesses from testifying.

Considering I have zero confidence that Trump will stop stonewalling, and also knowing that Democrats want to stick to the issues at hand and not turn it into a circus on the alleged corruption of Joe Biden, I have trouble believing that they’re going to push many, if any witnesses through.

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If you wish to make inflammatory accusations, please take them to The BBQ Pit. Personal shots do not belong in Great Debates or Elections (or anywhere outside the Pit).

[ /Moderating ]

Hop in a time machine and go back to 1988 when he first ran for President, maybe?

Not quite sure what you mean by that, as distinct from the normal processes of election, and political parties.

Presumably it would require a constitutional amendment to create a voter-initiated recall procedure for a President (and good luck designing it so that it doesn’t have unintended consequences).

Emphasis of my own post by… Well, me. Because it seems to be correct.

If the GOP cannot give a compelling reason for a witness to be called - compelling being that the testimony is germane to the impeachment of the President, not the hand-waving, table-pounding nonsense the GOP would rather do - that witness won’t testify.

Strange that the Republicans are so adamant about bringing forth witnesses to support Donald Trump’s side of the story, when they could just make sure Donald Trump himself testifies and tells it himself. I’m sure that Democrats would be fine with that.

Yet again, their behavior defies logic. :confused:

What do you suppose the Republican rank and file would do if the Committee chair issued a subpoena for Trump and he, Trump-like, said, “Hell yeah, I’ll testify! My stable, great and unmatched wisdom is all I need to win the day. I’ll make them look like fools. Fools, I tell you, fools!”

I’m sure the first thing they would do is attempt to talk him out of it, but what if he was unbent. He’s adamant and scheduled to testify a week from whenever.

I think not a few would say fuck it and resign. No way out at that point. May as well score that assistant manager position at Walmart while the window is open.

The Democrats are greatly aided by the apparent fact that there are no competent and intelligent Republicans among the leadership in the House.

Those guys are really, really dumb, in addition to being dishonest and dishonorable.

If the Democrats were even a modicum smarter, they would be able to goad Trump into agreeing to testify. It wouldn’t even be all that hard to do.

He was nearly goaded into talking to Mueller, I suspect. His lawyers ran training sessions with him, after all.

The outcome of those sessions, of course, was that they refused to send him.