In the case of Kupperman (the guy who is taking his subpoena to court), did he get a special order to not appear or did the people who have come forward just decide for themselves which order held precedence?
Schiff withdrew the subpoena and asked the judge to dismiss the suit. It continued.
Now Trump has filed with the court asking that the suit be ended, explaining that Kupperman is too close to Trump to be allowed to testify.
What the flying fuck, why in hell would he need a foreign government to investigate, don’t we happen to have enough people working for the local state and federal governments [well and our militaries] to investigate anybody we want in the US? Sheesh. Now get a foreign government to fabricate something, that is a horse of a different color.
Sometimes even for attempted obstruction of justice.
This is absolutely false, and a symptom of the phenomenon of how psychopaths think that everyone else in the world is a psychopath but they are just hiding it. But the psychopaths are wrong: we are not all as depraved as they are.
Look at Al Franken or Katie Hill. Then look at Steve King. Don’t even tell me both sides protect their own like Republicans do. Plus, if you think Dems would line up to protect Bill Clinton today, you are totally wrong. My guess is that if the same set of facts happened in 2019, Bill would resign prior to being removed by Dems who won’t brush sexual harassment under the rug and R’s who want to beat Dems at anything for any reason.
I think the comment that Pelosi, Schumer, the MSM, et al would be talking like Lindsey Graham had a Democratic president been accused of the same things that Donald has done is both silly and offensive. There has NEVER been a president as corrupt as Dolt45. NO OTHER PRESIDENT has extorted another nation to manufacture dirt on a political rival. You cannot make the assumption that because the Republicans have completely lost their moral compass then the Democrats would have too has no basis in fact, it’s just conjecture. Can you imagine how McCarthy, McConnell, and Nunes would be howling if a Democratic president did these things? We actually have data points for this- look at how they went after Hillary Clinton for DECADES. So where is the Republican outrage now? It went from “if there was a quid pro quo it would be a problem” to “well, there was a quid pro quo but they got their weapons anyway so no harm no foul” to “well, it was wrong but not to the impeachable level”. If any Republican had as much guts in their entire body as Nancy Pelosi has in her pinky, they’d be riding this corrupt administration out on a rail. Instead, we see the apologists howl “well, your tribe wouldn’t impeach if it was one of yours”.
Insisting that one’s opponents would do the same immoral things that one is doing is a classic tried-and-true way to rationalize and justify doing really awful things.
So this whole argument that Trump is providing lethal aid that the cowardly Obama wouldn’t just got torpedoed bigly. The javelins aren’t allowed to be used against the Russians. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Gee thanks, that’s great. Really useful.
Oh goody, we’re back to “manufacture dirt” again. That never happened. There’s been no evidence presented that President Trump asked the Ukrainians to “manufacture dirt”.
You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
[quote=“BeepKillBeep, post:4608, topic:840771”]
So this whole argument that Trump is providing lethal aid that the cowardly Obama wouldn’t just got torpedoed bigly. The javelins aren’t allowed to be used against the Russians. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Gee thanks, that’s great. Really useful.
[/QUOTE]If true, does it not also “torpedo” the dem argument that the aid money was critical to Ukranian’s ability to fend off the Russians and that they were like a-guy-with-his-balls hooked-up-to-a-car-battery-level of desperate to obtain it?
The only “evidence” that there is dirt to be had on the Bidens consists of conspiracy theories. To ask someone to announce an investigation into someone else based on long debunked conspiracy theories is the same as asking someone to manufacture dirt. The announcement of an unwarranted investigation into someone is to unjustly besmirch their reputation and is the manufacturing of dirt.
That’s some mighty fine use of selective facts.
You seem very certain. You should ask Jim Jordan to call you as a witness.
Not as a verbatim quote, no. I guess that proves that President Trump didn’t communicate to Ukraine that they should investigate - or at least publicly announce that they intended to investigate - the Bidens, as several key witnesses have alleged.
Of course, if that’s the case there’s no need for the WH to illegally prevent all those subpoena’d individuals from speaking to the House Committee.
Yes, these are words that many people should take to heart.
Because without false equivalence Republicans would have no equivalence… Now with a free side of whataboutism!
There is evidence of this. You have seen and discussed evidence of this. Your failure to recognize evidence that President Trump asked the Ukrainians to “manufacture dirt” on Joe Biden as evidence is entirely on you and doesn’t magically make that evidence vanish.
Nope. Let’s go back to the not-quite-a-transcript:
I’m glad you recognize that frivolous investigations have the potential to unjustly besmirch the reputation of the investigatee. There have been a lot of dems that seemed to be discounting this possibility when Republicans raised it.
The debate about whether an investigation into the Bidens would be justified or frivolous is probably better-suited for another thread, so can we agree to just leave it at the recognition that our opinions differ on this point, at least for this thread?
Reword this to “I would like you to do us a favor though.” The inclusion of the word “first” can be seen as leading. The word “though” at the end is plenty - ask Kevin McCarthy.
Everything else is perfect, though.
An argument can be made that extortion is, to repurpose a quote from ethics scholar Mortimer Smith, just bribery with extra steps.
This, right here. The kind of comity and open-minded search for accommodation and compromise that make America great and make the Boards above average. We sit on a pile of evidence that Il Douche is a rabid Cthulhu of greed and corruption, and HD budges a little, admits that maybe his marriage vows were flexible.
Gasp! But still, many of us consider anyone’s marriage vows to be important only to those people who exchanged them. Unlike the vows he took when he scorched that tiny hand-print on the Bible he swore upon. He’s bubonic leprosy, and HD offers to admit he’s a pretty bad cold. Sorta kinda maybe.
Compromise-wise, my rice bowl is empty.
Except that there is zero evidence of this and corroboration of Schiff’s denials that he ever met or talked to the whistleblower. So aside from the fact that even if Schiff met with the whistleblower does not materially change the fact that everything the whistleblower revealed has been confirmed (some by the administration itself), it’s also complete bullshit.