The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

[kitap]

I wish everyone would stop using the term emolument. I keep thinking it’s a misspeaking of emollient and get really horrific mental images.

That said, Nunez was really outclassed by Vindman.

[psychonaut]

@John_Stamos_Left_Ear

I am a poker dealer. I am licensed by two states and previously was licensed by two others. In all four cases, I had to expose my financial records to state licensing agencies. This was to assure them that I was not in debt up to my eyeballs making me a risk to be around money.

I think there is an important distinction between your situation and Trump’s, which is that your exposure of your financial records was a statutory precondition for obtaining your licence to deal poker, whereas there was no such statutory requirement for Trump’s election to public office. You may well argue that it should be a statutory requirement in the case of the president, but if it is not, then an attempt to legally enforce such a requirement after one’s election could be viewed as an ex post facto law, which is constitutionally prohibited. (Of course, there may be other, legally and constitutionally sound reasons for requesting Trump’s tax returns. All I’m arguing here is that your particular reason—that is, that Trump’s personal finances can examined simply by virtue of his already having been elected to public office—doesn’t seem to hold water.)

[Ann_Hedonia]

@Kolak_of_Twilo

That was responding to Ann Hedonia post that has been edited.

Yeah, sorry about that. I wasn’t 100% that what I posted conformed to the rules of the forum.

[QuickSilver]

@Sherrerd

It would also be fascinating to know what pressure may have been brought to bear on Sondland. I don’t mean from his own lawyers, but from…other interested parties. Carrots? Sticks? We may never know for certain, but it’s difficult to believe no one has employed one or the other.

Choice number 2 would be remarkably tough for Sondland to carry through, given the number of people who’ve interacted with him on the “deliverable” and associated issues.

Could be a choice #3: clam up completely. Go the 5th route (amendment, not beverage. Or then again, maybe both).

My suspicion is that Sondland will either decide to clam up or decline to show up last minute.

[VinylTurnip]

@kitap

That said, Nunez was really outclassed by Vindman.

Devin Nunes would be outclassed by a pink plastic flamingo with a tribal tattoo wearing a velour leisure suit while driving a leopard-print Hummer with fuzzy dice, curb feelers and truck nutz.

[Bumbershoot]

I posted this in the ImPEACHment Pit thread; thought I’d post it here as well:

Here is a very good op-ed piece from the New York Times, mostly about Vindman and Jennifer Williams (I hope it’s not paywalled; I was able to read the whole thing).

[kitap]

@VinylTurnip

Devin Nunes would be outclassed by a pink plastic flamingo with a tribal tattoo wearing a velour leisure suit while driving a leopard-print Hummer with fuzzy dice, curb feelers and truck nutz.

I would pay good money to see that.

[Borborygmi]

@Aspenglow

Each department, such as State, the National Security Council, FBI, CIA, etc., etc. has at least one legal adviser assigned to it. These are lawyers meant to act independent from the agency and among other tasks, to make legal calls when required. Employees who have concerns about the legality of an action are supposed to take their concerns to those lawyers for a determination about whether those concerns should be formally pursued.

In the case of the National Security Council, the attorney assigned to the position of legal adviser is John Eisenberg. This is “the lawyer” whom Lt. Col. Vindman and Fiona Hill notified of their concerns. Rather than referring the matter to DOJ, he buried the call transcript on the secret server and instructed Vindman not to say anything further about the matter. Eisenberg was subpoenaed to testify and explain himself to the Intelligence Committee and has refused.

In the case of the CIA, weeks before the whistleblower complaint was submitted, their (Trump-appointed and confirmed) general counsel made a criminal referral to DOJ about the Ukraine irregularities. (NBC News) DOJ failed to open an investigation.

There were other referrals made to DOJ by various lawyers acting on behalf of their agencies as detailed here (CNN). In 3 separate instances, Bill Barr chose to ignore the referrals instead of opening a formal investigation – which is why the House committees have ended up doing the investigation instead of a special counsel being appointed à la Mueller. All referrals were ignored.

Aspenglow, thanks for this and your hundreds of other thoughtful and informative posts throughout the Special Counsel investigation and now through the impeachment inquiry. I hardly ever (never?) post in these threads but I am a huge fan.

[RitterSport]

@VinylTurnip

Devin Nunes would be outclassed by a pink plastic flamingo with a tribal tattoo wearing a velour leisure suit while driving a leopard-print Hummer with fuzzy dice, curb feelers and truck nutz.

See? This is why I like this guy.

[Walken_After_Midnight]

Josh Lederman, NBC News:

BREAKING from @NBCNews: Sondland testimony targets Trump, Pompeo and confirms quid pro quo with #Ukraine -

[iiandyiiii]

And the “hearsay” argument bites the dust… not that it was ever coherent to begin with.

[iiandyiiii]

Recommend the 538 liveblog for the Sondland hearings for those who can’t watch along live:

What Went Down During Gordon Sondland’s Testimony

[Walken_After_Midnight]

“They knew what we were doing and why,” Sondland plans to tell the House Intelligence Committee, according to his opening statement obtained by NBC News. “Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret.”

[JohnT]

Sondland, driving the underbus.

[QuickSilver]

Don’t recall when I was so glad to have been proven wrong.

[jasg]

Rudy has been underbused.

[ThelmaLou]

@Borborygmi

Aspenglow, thanks for this and your hundreds of other thoughtful and informative posts throughout the Special Counsel investigation and now through the impeachment inquiry. I hardly ever (never?) post in these threads but I am a huge fan.

Wanted to second this, before the Breaking News takes over. I am a huge fan, too! Not only do you understand what’s going on, you explain it clearly and without rancor even in reply to rancorous posts.

[Happy_Lendervedder]

@ThelmaLou

Wanted to second this, before the Breaking News takes over. I am a huge fan, too! Not only do you understand what’s going on, you explain it clearly and without rancor even in reply to rancorous posts.

Wanted to third. Aspenglow is my favorite.

[JohnT]

Quadded.

[elucidator]

I was asleep, guys, anything happen? click

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST GOD ALMIGHTY!!