Okay, but if that were the case, why wouldn’t Trump have wanted to get some intelligence professionals (CIA, military intelligence) etc. to open an official inquiry?
Is it reasonable to believe that Trump credibly thought that hotelier Gordon Sondland and whatever-he-is-now Rudy Giuliani would have a better chance of coming up with a comprehensive report on ‘corruption’ in another nation?
I don’t know if “shirked” really fits, but I’ll agree that they haven’t succeeded in fully presenting for the American voting public the story of Trump’s Ukraine scheme.
A large part of that isn’t the fault of the Democrats, though. It’s the fault of a system that has, so far, permitted a conscious-of-his-own-guilt President, abetted by a corrupt Attorney General, to stonewall Congress on both witnesses and documents.
Yeah, the stonewalling and obstruction of justice are rampant in this case. Trump was going behind and around official channels in shaking down the Ukrainian government and has tried to stall and interfere with investigations that have arisen from his actions.
It strains plausibility to believe that he’s doing this because the evidence might reveal that he was trying to ensure integrity in the process of providing foreign aid.
In theory, Trump is at the mercy of the deep state and the entire CIA conspires against him.
Which means either that Trump is a crazy conspiracy theorist nutball, has come up with the world’s silliest excuse for his corrupt activities because he’s a fucking moron, and/or is a Russian puppet who spreads anti-American and anti-CIA propaganda. The great hope is that it’s option #2, perversely.
And it should be noted that the reason #2 is stupid is because 1) he could still hire a professional investigator, 2) saying that Giuliani was investigating Biden on his own doesn’t bear scrutiny when Trump is telling people on the phone that Giuliani is his intermediary and that they need to help him with Biden, and 3) he’s the boss of the CIA and appointed the head of the CIA - so he’s claiming personal incompetence.
I share this missive for those who seem to be twisting themselves into Gumby-like contortions to find a narrative in the Ukraine chronicle that makes Trump look like an ok guy, just doing reasonable things:
Last night, Andrew Weissmann appeared as a guest on Rachel Maddow’s show and shared a splendid story. He said (I’m paraphrasing) that when he was a baby prosecutor working criminal cases, each time he would find a new piece of evidence that supported his theory of a crime, he would excitedly run to his supervising attorney and share what he had uncovered.
One day, the boss said, “I don’t know why you’re so surprised that you keep finding evidence that your support theories. Every piece of the puzzle fits because they’re guilty.” Video to see the original. (Maddow)
You’re engaging in wishful thinking. Bolton has made a career out of defending the power of the Executive. As such, he is extremely unlikely to do anything that might in any way reduce the President’s power or standing.
But he’s not an idiot, and he is very much interested in the expansion of US power abroad, and it obvious that Trump continuing in office is counter to that. I think his ideal world would be the US as Rome with Caesar at the head, and that isn’t going to happen with Caligula in charge.
I would actually argue that your post boosts my argument, in that it his support for Carter demonstrates his belief in ideology over partisanship.
Trump won’t be impeached. Either he’ll “win” the voting or the House will opt for a censure or something like that instead of impeaching. Even Schiff isn’t 100% sure of his vote.
Trial in the senate would be devastating for the Democrats.
Don’t get me wrong, this doesn’t mean Trump is innocent or anyhting like that, it’s that, politically, impeachment is bad for the Democrats.
I disagree. Impeachment, even if it results in acquittal, is important for establishing that there is some party that stands for the rule of law and maintains respect for American values and institutions. An unsuccessful impeachment is a short term win for Republicans, but it will cement the party as a group of amoral toadies for a dirty, unscrupulous leader.
I think the eventual exoneration of Trump, while a satisfying win for the GOP, will backfire in November. The more Trump gloats about the “bullshit” (his words) witch hunts, the more the average American will long for dignity and decency in the White House. Sure, Republicans will eat it up, but people who identify as Republicans will continue to shrink. As has already been previewed in some of the midterm elections, the GOP is going to get especially killed in the suburbs come election time.
There is no question that Trump will be impeached. It will happen. There’s a strong probability that the impeachment trial will end in an acquittal tho.
A senate trial will not be devastating for Democrats in the least. A majority of voters support impeachment already, and the ones that don’t aren’t going to change their minds. Comparing this situation to the backlash against Clinton’s impeachment is unsound.
I gotta say, Schiff’s comments to me read like theater. If he doesn’t vote for impeachment, I’ll eat my hat. But of course it’s good practice for him to talk with his constituents to find out what they’re thinking, since he is, y’know, representing them.
There’s a chance the impeachment vote won’t go through, but I think that chance is very small. Polls show a slight inclination toward impeachment, and the voters who want that are concentrated in Dem districts.
If there is a trial in the Senate, dominated by the GOP, they will make it about Biden and the dems, and will be a disaster. YOu don’t want that if you’re a dem.
Cut your loses, censure him and be done with it.
I agree. I don’t think there are a lot of Americans out there who just aren’t sure if Trump is a crook or not and they are anxiously awaiting word from the wise Senate before they decide. If Trump is acquitted he is certainly going to push the “I’m innocent!” narrative but if it’s a party-line vote I don’t think people are going to say it was fair and impartial. Trump is going to end up being innocent in the same way OJ Simpson is.
That’s not how impeachment trials work. The “prosecution” is composed of managers appointed by the House, and the president will have a team of defense lawyers. The Senate serves as the jury and has little to no role in setting the trial agenda.
In Japan (when I lived there, at least), the police knew who was a crook and up to no good. As such, if they suspected that you had done something, they beat you into a confession and then then judge would sentence you on the basis of that confession.
In the US, the police know who the crooks are. But they just have to look at them and let them go. They have to wait until that person is fingered in some actual crime, first. And then they have to gather evidence that supports the accusation and take it to court. And then despite having an actual crime and evidence to back the charge, they might have to let the crook go if the jury doesn’t believe them or the court finds some technical defect in their work.
In the US, we pay our police to do the hard thing and hold the rules over their belief of the public welfare.
In Congress, they swore an oath to uphold the rules as written in the Constitution. The Constitution says that you must impeach and remove the President for Treason, Bribery, Emoluments, and High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
If impeachment is bad for your party, because the American public is punishing the politicians for doing their sworn duty, then the people need to be penalized and corrected for misbehavior.
So let them make it a circus about Biden. That makes them look even worse. It will be obvious they’re not addressing the actual issues put forward in the articles of impeachment, and it will be obvious that all the “evidence” they’re putting forward against Biden is bullshit.
At this point, this isn’t about winning the impeachment vote in the Senate, it’s about making those GOP senators own their own corruption and lack of moral fiber. The more BS they pile on trying to save Trump, the more people who might not have voted in the next election get fired up enough to actually vote.
I’ve given up on convincing current Republican voters of anything. I’m putting my hopes in a sufficient number of non-voters getting pissed off enough to vote against him. The Democrats had 3 million more votes the last time, and it wasn’t enough. They need more, and letting Republican politicians out themselves as the utter bastards they are is they only way I can see to get those votes.
Sure, it may not work, but then again, nothing else we’ve tried has worked, either. If it doesn’t work, then the Great American Experiment is officially a failure.