The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

That is not Occams razor. It’s more like the reality TV crazy man theory. It is not the simplest explananation, in fact. It makes it more complicated and incoherent.

“He could do ANYTHING. He’s crazy. He’s stupid and a genius too! He doesn’t need a material reason to do anything. He is the wind. He lives in his own universe. Other leaders cannot enter his fortress of intentional solitude”

How rich do you think he really is by the way?

This is the mental space you need to live in around the current events situation? The fact that you could do this after the responses in this thread is close to gaslighting. You are ignoring the evidence, seemingly because it is in plain sight and understandable.

From Wikipedia: "A popular misconception is that circumstantial evidence is less valid or less important than direct evidence.[3][4] This is only partly true: direct evidence is popularly assumed to be the most powerful.[5] Many successful criminal prosecutions rely largely or entirely on circumstantial evidence, and civil charges are frequently based on circumstantial or indirect evidence.

Indeed, the common metaphor for the strongest possible evidence in any case—the “smoking gun”—is an example of proof based on circumstantial evidence.[6] Similarly, fingerprint evidence, videotapes, sound recordings, photographs, and many other examples of physical evidence that support the drawing of an inference, i.e., circumstantial evidence, are considered very strong possible evidence.

In practice, circumstantial evidence can have an advantage over direct evidence in that it can come from multiple sources that check and reinforce each other.[7] Eyewitness testimony can be inaccurate at times,[8] and many persons have been convicted on the basis of perjured or otherwise mistaken testimony.[9] Thus, strong circumstantial evidence can provide a more reliable basis for a verdict. Circumstantial evidence normally requires a witness, such as the police officer who found the evidence, or an expert who examined it, to lay the foundation for its admission. This witness, sometimes known as the sponsor or the authenticating witness, is giving direct (eyewitness) testimony, and could present credibility problems in the same way that any eyewitness does."

Here is my question for you: What difference does it make to investigating agencies and to citizens, if donald is not being blackmailed, but instead, is simply a child playing dictator. How do the investigations differ? You need to deal with the worst possible outcomes first anyway.

A political act tied to a policy act doesn’t take on the status of the policy act. Generally, it takes on the unprotected status of corruption. Like, “The mayor will approve your building permit when you come up with something to blackmail my opponent with” isn’t a zoning issue.

How many times do I have to say this? I’m not sure if you’re ignoring what I’ve written like six times, or not understanding it, or what. Let me shorten the post so you can focus on this key issue:

Foreign policy and national security matters can justifiably be withheld from the public. Electioneering cannot be justifiably hidden behind that secrecy.

Do you understand the words that I’m saying?

Interesting, but I don’t know how interesting yet:

Co-equal branches.

We shall soon see how the originalists on the Supreme Court define ‘co-equal’.

Let us hope it is not that ‘some are more co-equal than others’.

I said before, and I will say it again, Chief Justice Roberts is THE key in defining the future of American Democracy. And it is ironic that in this, or in fact any democracy, one man will wield such power.

Rep. Adam Schiff:

Where do I begin?

  1. I didn’t mention the mob.
  2. I didn’t conclude anything.
  3. You are calling me a liar and falsely accusing me of using tactics. This doesn’t even deserve a response. And you should probably be glad that this isn’t Great Debates…
  4. I’ve never said things definitely aren’t connected.

Please don’t make shit up.

You took the time to link to that. I read it. Please summarize how it supports whatever it is you are trying to say, because I don’t want to just guess at it.

Do you have some kind of bone to pick with me? I asked how it would work. Why the editorializing about triviality?

That link is about eavesdropping. Are you suggesting that Trump is passing on requests to his foreign puppet masters in this way? Sorry to be flippant, but I truly don’t know.

I have been discussing Trump being controlled as president. That is about the campaign. This is not a nitpick. This part of the Mueller report may be suggestive of something, but it obviously cannot be used to conclude anything about Trump as president, since this he hadn’t been elected when this was going on.

:rolleyes:

I must be in a different thread. No one has specified any evidence to me.

No offense, but I haven’t talked about this and have no desire to do so.
I am bowing out of this part of the thread. I’ll give you (and whomever) the last word.

Weak way to ignore the issue. And by strawmanning it say it was about a blowjob and not perjury you, for the millionth time, refuse to accept what the impeachment was about.

  1. Clinton broke the law by committing perjury. THAT is undeniable. Rather than holding a full trial, Byrd wanted to short circuit it by moving for dismissal.
  2. Assuming Trump is impeached and McConnell moves for a dismissal you and the rest of the Dems will go into complete hystrionics about how evil Mitch is and how there needs to be a full trial. Something that y’all didn’t do when Sen. Byrd did the same thing.

So yes it IS THE SAME. Bottom line - it’s the hypocray that it’s acceptable when your side does it but if the other side does it it is pure evil.

Okay, super. We’re massive fucking hypocrites. Also, I eat boogers, and my favorite movie is Ishtar.

Now that that’s settled and you’ve won, can we drop this discussion?

…evidence is anything presented in support of an assertion. You’ve been shown a shit-load of evidence. But it isn’t really evidence you are after, is it? You are really after definitive proof.

…Ishtar was, indeed, a great movie. I stand with you.

Max you write very sensibly but the statement above exemplifies what I think you’re missing. What you say is correct - in normal times. These are not normal times. Normally, the POTUS would have the trust of the People and the other branches of government.

When you don’t trust the Administration, “secrecy in diplomacy and diplomatic relationships” provides an impenetrable cover for ‘secrecy in collusion’. To enter in to such a one-way relationship of trust is not only counter to the fundamental notions of separation of powers and co-equality, it is a hole from which there could be no escape. Any Executive Branch that participates in such a relationship is acting unconstitutionally.

To which I would only add, hence, whistleblower protocols and protections. They exist for an actual reason.

Why are you suggesting I have a bone to pick with you? Please demonstrate where I used the word “bone” or “pick”. I also did not use the word “editor”, nor claim to be the editor of any journalistic publication, so I don’t understand the suggestion that I am “editorializing”. This is all so confusing.

The other side of which is, I don’t want other nations feeling secure that they can engage in shenanigans with a corrupt US president–shenanigans like looking for dirt on his political rivals. If they’re thinking about doing that, I want them to worry about it, worry that US laws will result in their shenanigans being revealed. That’s a feature, not a bug.

Circumstantial evidence is evidence no?

You haven’t been reading the posts have you?

Occams razor can’t be two things. It needs to be the simplest explanation. **This naturally must include circumstantial evidence. **Can you think of any CE around this case? Occams is not an option for you. Shlockam’s razor is available, but it’s on the dull side.
Wait a minute. What did you mean about “this part of the thread”?

This is really what it’s all about for some apologists:

“We must have absolute, definitive proof before an investigation can be begun. Oh, there is no absolute definitive proof yet? WITCH HUNT! NO investigation for you!”

If you have no idea what Occam’s Razor means, sure.

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But you guys, it was a beautiful, perfect, very nice call. There has never been a call that was so nice and perfect and beautiful. Not even by Abe Lincoln. He wore that hat better, but he didn’t have telephones.