Presidential Consigliere. It’s a new cabinet position.
Do you know the difference between “appearance of impropriety” and “impropriety”? The phone call was improper.
There is no legit investigation into Biden that you can point to to explain your position. Biden has been cleared. This we can point to. That the pres has a justice dept and has to let them do their jobs without interference, well we can point to that too.
What are you pointing at? That you, personally, have “no knowledge of impropriety”? You are only a population of one, and if we have already heard the impropriety wtih our own ears, your case suffers.
You cannot listen to fox news and take it seriously though. We know that right?
And that’s the message that I am saying Democrats should get out there. I can’t argue against it because I agree.
The other member who normally represents Republicans is suspended. I can’t totally fill in because I think there’s no legitimate reason to investigate the Bidens. But I can present the standard Republican viewpoint, up to that point, supported by a USA Today poll linked on the previous page.
~Max
Their message appears to be working already – most Americans agree asking another country to try to harm one’s political rivals is wrong.
Okay, so you’re just playing devil’s advocate. Fair enough.
Headline on CNN:
I am really getting tired of this bullshit “alleged without evidence” that the press is currently using to tiptoe around what is actually happening. I’d rather see:
TRUMP LIED AGAIN TODAY IN ORDER TO SPREAD FALSEHOODS AND SMEAR HIS OPPONENTS.
See [POST=21895770]post #1675[/POST].
~Max
That’s reasonable, considering Trump’s America. But what if Fox news reported that Hunter Biden got paid a lot of money. Certainly, then, the so-called President could ask the Ukrainian government to look into things, and report back to Rudy and Barr. I mean, they’re just trying to get to the bottom of…something.
No. There is no vote before an investigation of all the wrongdoings and it is public. The rebupkis are not going to play socratic games. They are going to lie and troll and obfuscate. There is no convincing them, without the rod of reality forcing them to recognize that impeachment is history.
You are acting like the Rs are a real party arguing out of ethical values in this situation. Do you believe that?
I was referring to your dismissal of the appearance of impropriety as a thing. It’s not a little thing. Making devils advocate arguments you really don’t have to account for things I suppose.
I’m all for chucking this at the Senate. Should be a short trial if anything exists to show that there was an ongoing legitimate investigation.
I’ll refer you to [POST=21892045]post #1446[/POST]:
The president designated him as a point man. I don’t see why he needs to be a federal employee - the other point man (U.S. Special Representative Kurt Volker) wasn’t a federal employee either. Mr. Guiliani wasn’t officially a special representative but it would appear that he acted in that capacity, officially at the request of the State department (at the president’s request).
~Max
Protections are afforded to both investigators and US persons based on official duty. Private citizens can do things that the police can’t. If you feel your rights have been violated by Rudy Giuliani, who do you go to to report your grievances? Straight to Trump?
At what point should Democratic candidates ask our allies to investigate the Trump businesses?
What USG position is “point man?”
Volker was appointed to an actual position in the government. Your attempt to confuse the issue is obvious. Is this really the debate style you want to portray yourself as adopting?
Yeah I don’t think the right has really thought through the can of worms they are trying to open up here. Unless they are assuming that if they survive this it will allow them to hold permanent power so nobody could ever use this kind of malfeasance against them.
Ok, so what was/is Volker’s position if he is not any kind of federal employee? This article from 5 days ago said he resigned from the State Department.
(Video) and I’ll be honrst, I just read snippets, didn’t watch the whole thing)
Is special envoy a federal position?
Never mind, already answered.
Trump said those things on the south lawn of the White House as a result, ‘South lawn,’ is trending on Twitter.
Admitted, I am in no position to point to a potential ongoing investigation. Neither are you in a position to say there isn’t an investigation.
Then that’s what you should be doing: convincing Republicans that there are no grounds for an investigation of Joe and Hunter Biden. Pressuring foreign governments to cooperate with a baseless investigation of a political rival is an impeachable abuse of power, I hope that much is admitted when Republicans say the president is not above the law.
Yes, that is what I am pointing at.
The Democrats are a minority in the Senate, so ignore the Republicans at your own peril. If conviction is a goal, just sitting back satisfied that you have convinced yourself will not advance the goal. Whereas Republicans can sit back satisfied that they have convinced themselves because they have the numerical superiority. The burden falls on Democrats.
~Max
You sue the individual who actually violated your rights, and all of the people involved in such a violation, just as you would if the individual worked for the government.
~Max
This presumes there are enough Republican Senators who are rational actors rather than knee-jerk or brainless partisans. I’m not sure why we should make this assumption.
What would you advocate the Democrats do if you believed the Republicans in the Senate didn’t care about the facts at all?
In such a case, I’d advocate that the Democrats make convincing the public their priority.