You’ve got to take the long view…when men die, they go somewhere elves don’t know about. Arwen wants to be with Aragorn not just until his death, for eternity after death. If she remains an elf, she’ll never see him again after he dies; if she becomes human, she’s confident they will be rejoined in whatever happens.
Well, I was mostly being facetious. But (sortof) seriously, I don’t see why Frodo et.al. need to leave from the Grey Havens, when any Haven will do; geography is a bit fuzzy in the movie after all. Frodo can find the weight of life unbearable whilst Gondor almost as well as back home. Then along comes Elrond & company, Arwen hands Frodo her boat ticket (“this gift I will give you, Ringbearer, that you may go in my stead, and travel into the West and be healed of all hurt” or something like that), and away they go to the boat dock on the Anduin, off to heaven, while Merry, Pippin, Sam shed tears at dockside.
You’re right, my bad. I’d forgotten about the pillagers that showed up early on. It still makes little sense (at least to me) that they wouldn’t show up at the battle as well.
Hey, did anyone else notice how cool the Oliphants were?
ELVES OUT OF HELMS DEEP! ELVES OUT OF HELMS DEEP! ELVES OUT OF HELMS DEEP! THE WHOLE OF MIDDLE-EARTH IS WATCHING!
Other than that, I loved it just fine. A few minor nitpicks, which I will (perhaps) air at a later date. Going again tomorrow night.
Hildoin Úr-anar, i nar írimë.
I don’t know the books well, but I loved this film. The Arwen romance could have been a tad briefer, but the last stand at Helm’s Keep and the attack of the Ents make up for any lulls in the story.
Makes me all the more pissed off that Georgie boy is pissing all over my precious Star Wars. You lucky LOTR fans, you don’t know how good you’ve got it.
Yes. Yes, we do. Believe me. 
I’m off to see it for the third time in as many days today.
All I have to do to be completely happy is tell myself that that naughty person claiming to be Faramir is in fact his EVIL TWIN[sup]TM[/sup], and the real Faramir is the one who finally shows up in Osgiliath.
Aragorn calls his horse “mellon”. Heeee… I’ll pick up some of this elvish yet…
What’s the beef people have with elves at Helm’s Deep? What’s the friction between Rohan and the Eldar?
OK, finally saw it last night. Agree with a lot of what was said here but disagree with a few bits too, so…
First, while I really enjoyed the movie, I didn’t like it quite as much as the first. Jackson’s deviations from the book didn’t bother me so much, it just seemed a bit disjointed to me. I didn’t really like the constant jumping back and forth from one storyline to the other. (Yeah, I know there really wasn’t any other way to handle it.) I also thought the introductions of Theoden, Eowyn and company were a bit abrupt but hopefully this will be fleshed out a bit more in the DVD expansion. These are minor complaints though.
Things I didn’t like. I can’t figure out the fake Aragorn death thing in the middle. I can accept the Aragorn/Arwen bits; I think Tolkien would have included more of it in the main story instead of the appendix but I get the feeling that writing romance wasn’t his strong point. I just wish they had found a better way to integrate them with the story.
Also, the whole Faramir thing bothered me. I really didn’t understand what was going on there. Faramir and company capture Sam and Frodo, tie their hands, but don’t bother taking their weapons away? He’s gung-ho to take them to Gondor, then lets them go (even saying his life is forfeit for doing so) just because Sam makes a speech? Of course, without it Frodo, Sam and Gollum wouldn’t have had much to do except wander around the wilderness for a while, so maybe that was it.
Finally, I notice that many people liked the Ents but to me, they looked like something I would find on a ride at Disneyworld. I’m not sure how else they should have been done, but they didn’t work for me.
I’ll probably have more comments later, but this will do for a first set of impressions.
There were no elves at Helm’s Deep in the books. Haldir (my second favorite elf) died needlessly, dammit, they all did, as their involvement changed nothing, except maybe making the elves more sympathetic to the audience.
Well, not just because they weren’t there. Philosophically, JRRT was portraying the elves as a fading race who contributed little to the final defeat of Sauron, acting (appropriately) in leaving it all in the hands of mortal races, save for some guidance and succor. Their actions were reduced to self-defense and counter-attack. The woes and cares of Middle-Earth were no longer theirs.
And the Rohirrim feared and mistrusted the elves, even though they’d never met any. Eorl the Young, founder of Rohan, displays his mistrust for Galadriel, even tho she aided him from afar.
Y’all are getting all complicated with Arwen doesn’t just go to Valinor, when actually the answer is simple: there are no more boats – Arwen is the last elf on Middle-earth. She can stay alive as long as she wants, but what’s the point? She lays down and dies on the hill where Aragorn and She plighted their troth. ::sniff::
From the tale of Aragorn & Arwen:
Aragorn says: '“I speak no comfort to you, for there is no comfort for such pain within the circles of the world. The uttermost choice is before you: to repent and go to the Havens and bear away into the West the memory of our days together that shall there be evergreen but never more than memory; or else to abide the Doom of Men.”
Arwen replies: '“Nay, dear lord,” she said, "that choice is long over. There is now no ship that would bear me hence, and I must indeed abide the Doom of Men, whether I will or I nill: the loss and the silence.
Every time Elrond would go on a rant about men I’d mutter, “settle down there turbo, you’re only half an elf yourself.”
Yeah, but Legolas builds one for him and Gimli. There are other options.
I always believed this was said in the sense that no ship would take her as she was now a mortal.
You’re right; the elves are a spent force. Weary of constant struggle and defeat. But they aren’t completely withdrawn from the world. Lorien and Mirkwood tackle Dor Guldur’s forces which could have opened and second front on Rohan. They provide what little council is possible, and what little aid might help.
The part I loved was Theoden’s reciting the “where are the horse and rider”. Beautifully paced and sorrowful.
I wonder how/if they’ll do the Paths of the Dead in RotK. Anyone know?
Thanks for the help on the Arwen stituation, sorry we got so sidetracked on it. I get it now. (And I agree with Qagdop, by the way regarding her “no ship” line.)
I loved “where is the horse and the rider” even in the trailer, and was really psyched to hear it in the movie. wow… so good. And Eowyn’s speech about her fear of a cage was great too.
Another nitpick: When the Ents attack, Saruman looks all distressed, but DOES NOTHING! huh? shouldn’t he fight back a bit? I know, the whole attack was only described in hindsight in the book, so the details are sketchy. So I don’t expect a justification there, but in the movie, it seemed very weird.
??? He calls his horse “open”?
I think he actually said “mellyn.” (friend)
I think he was too stunned to do anything, like he hadn’t ever considered the Ents coming to kick some ass over the deaths of their friends and kin.
Then he went back inside and cried. :biggrin:
I just loved that “rut-roh” look on Saruman’s face…