The unanwerable question?

The more important question:

Can God make people stop asking this question?

Of course, this implies another, more interesting problem: Can an omniscient being possess free will?

Knowing all means knowing what you are going to do next, and after that, and after that, and so on. You cannot surprise yourself, as you already know the full path of your life. If you attempt to do something different, you’ll know you’re going to, and you’ll know the outcome, and so on.

Omnipotence implies omniscience, and vice-versa: If you are able to do everything, you are able to make yourself become omniscient. If you know everything, you know how to become omnipotent. Therefore, postulating a being with either of the attributes means postulating a being with both attributes.

Being ominpotent means you can grant yourself free will. Being omniscient means you cannot have free will. You cannot be omnipotent without being omniscient, and vice-versa. This neat deadlock negates both attributes.

(If this were an old sci-fi flick, the computer would be issuing smoke and groaning about illogical input now.)

Can an omnipotent being take attributes away from himself? Does an omniscient being know how to not know? Yes on both counts, but that doesn’t solve the problem. It merely reduces the being to a stature somewhat above that of modern man. Not precisely Our Heavenly Father, neh?

Paradoxes like the above didn’t initially drive me from religion, but they aren’t bringing me any closer to it.

I think your logic is flawed. While I agree that omnipotence implies omniscience, I don’t think the converse is necessarily true. What if it’s not possible to become omnipotent? Knowing everything, an omniscient person would certainly be aware of this fact, but that doesn’t imply he’s able to change it.

There are many Christians who claim that God’s incarnation as the human Jesus was an intentional case of self-limiting.

If you mean the Judeo-Christian God, he’s lied on a number of well-documented occasions. For example, compare Jeremiah 34:5 with 2 Kings 25:7 and Jeremiah 52:10-11.

Can Cecil craft a sarcastic zinger so witty that he can’t come up with a rejoinder to it?

Thanks, but I’m with you on being skeptical. I just thought the reference was kinda amusing.

Ugh… sorry. Kiel, fellow classmate and Doper, didn’t log off the school pc.

Its me.

Cab Bush make Iraq so big he can’t pick it up?

garius, with your history of Barry Whitesque Smooooooveness, I would have expected no other response than that. :smiley:

its a curse - there are several small florists in twickenham who owe their continuing existence to my inability to keep my big trap shut (although even i’m not stupid enough to actually say that one! :slight_smile: )

And back on the topic, im sure most dopers are familiar with this already, but anyone who has been enjoying this debate but is new to this subject may find it interesting to read into the Ontalogical Argument for the existence of god.

Thats just my “for further reading” suggestion. :slight_smile:

This has been a great discussion. I think the point of wether or not God can limit himself is an interesting one. I do not look at Jesus as a limitation of God. I don’t have the exact scripture, but somewhere in the Bible Jesus is said to have “made himself of no reputation and taken on the LIKENESS of man.” I believe he was still completely empowered, but chose not to use this power.

I also agree that omnipotence doesn’t neccesarily have to be linked to omniscience. Having the power to do something doesn’t mean I have all the required knowledge. I think I have the power to hit a golfball 300 yards, but I can’t apply enough knowledge to my swing to make it efficient enough to accomplish the task.

Also, if I would have asked the original question with “stone” in place of “rock” would KCSuze have given me a little ditty on Stone Cold Steve Austin? If so, I would like to see it soon.

“shit in one hand and wish in the other, and see which fills up first” --All of our fathers