The USA is not now and may never be ready for a woman President

Great Debates
1

IMHO it’s very important that Donald Trump not be reelected in 2020, given that he’s still in office by then and runs again. But if the Democrats nominate another woman (Elizabeth Warren’s name pops up) I believe they will be throwing the election away. Likewise a non-white man-- no matter how qualified.

This comes under the heading of Sad But True: only a white man can defeat Donald Trump.

As bad a Presidential candidate as Hillary may have been (even though she was widely described as possibly THE single most qualified candidate ever to run for President), if she had been a white man, s/he could have beaten Trump. Apart from all of her “crimes” (real and/or fabricated), including personal/professional/fashion/demeanor/hairstyle faults and failings, I’m convinced that the sheer, visceral hatred of Hillary comes down to her being a woman. People hate her more than they hate Bill-- go figure. There’s a very wide streak of “No woman is going to be the boss of me!” running right down the center of the country. Other developed countries don’t seem to have this-- again, go figure.

*Ever *is a long, long time, but I’m going to go out on a limb: I don’t think the USA will ever be ready for a woman President. What do y’all think?

2

Oh I don’t think so. Kansas is pretty conservative and we used to have a woman governor and we have had several female congress persons.

Sarah Palin was the governor of Alaska and was a candidate for vice president.

So I think the right woman can and will win. Hillary though wasn’t that person.

3

If she had been a man, she wouldn’t have been Mrs. Clinton and riding on name recognition. And how on earth do you get the idea that she was more qualified than, say, GHW Bush, just to take one recent example? The guy had a resume of qualifications a mile long.

I don’t see any reason why a qualified, likable woman candidate can’t get elected president in the US. That woman is not Warren (for lots or reasons that have nothing with her being a woman), but it could very well be someone else.

4

I’m inclined to agree that Clinton was just not the right female candidate. Too many people hated her. I also thought she was very abrasive even though she was more qualified than Trump.

The challenge with a woman candidate for president though, is that you need a strong woman in that position. And strong women too quickly get labelled “bitch”. A tough man is called assertive but a tough woman is called aggressive. This is what we need to fix in our society. I think all the women dopers here know what I’m talking about. (Raise your hand if (you’re a woman and) you’ve NEVER been called a bitch at work simply for holding your ground on some issue.)

5

I also disagree entirely with the OP. Most people did not think we could elect a black president until Barack Obama came along. Hillary was a terrible candidate, but her defeat gives me no reason to think that the right woman at the right time couldn’t be elected. I think it’s probably 50/50 whether the first woman president will be a Republican or a Democrat.

I am a female, liberal Democrat, and I have something very close to a visceral hatred of Hillary Clinton that has nothing to do with her gender. I support plenty of awesome women in government, including my Congresswoman, Nancy Pelosi, my two Senators, Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer, and Senator Elizabeth Warren. But I do not like and have never liked Hillary Clinton.

6

Yeah…it was sad that that Obama guy never got elected because he was black and all. I think we’d have really been better off with him as president, but only white males can win elections in the US…

Oh…wait…!

Elizabeth Warren wouldn’t win, IMHO, but not because she is a woman. Clinton didn’t lose because she was a woman either…and she didn’t lose because radical right wingers would never vote for a woman. She lost because people who voted for Obama decided to stay home and keep their marbles and sulk because their boy Bernie didn’t get the nomination. Trump got fewer votes than Romney did against Obama yet still won. The take away from that is to ensure that the loony lefty types fucking get out and vote this time even if they don’t get their optimal candidate and that the centrists are on board and not marginalized by someone saying they are as much of the enemy as the right wing (which is what would happen if either Bernie boy hobbles into the next election or if Warren gets the nod).

Your assertion comes under the heading of Simply Wrong.

7

Look at the numbers from 2016. Black voting participation declined by seven percentage points. If African-Americans in those three states we keep hearing so much about had voted at the rate they had voted for Obama, Clinton would have won all three states.

To says to me that a non-white candidate is essential in 2020.

I don’t see any non-white female politicians with the name recognition and status to even win the nomination. Oprah, maybe, could. That would be a sight to see. We’d have to extend light-night shows to 24 hours to handle the joke volumes.

Realistically, though, we have to stop the false narrative about white men taking back their country and voting for Trump. They’ve peaked. What hasn’t peaked is the non-white vote. Get them to the polls and everything changes, including whether a woman can win.

8

If I were betting on it, I would go with Urbanredneck. A female from the GOP side of the aisle is the most likely to make it to the Whitehouse first.

While I agree there is an undercurrent of sexism at play against Hillary, and other female Democratic notables, we have seen time and time again that deep objections from those on the Right to something about a Democrat fall away when the same trait resides with someone on their “team”. Hell, in spite of all of their use of bathroom bills as wedge issues, they would vote for Caitlyn Jenner without any sense of irony because she is a Republican.

9

Yeah, a lot of us that the first black president would be a Republican for the same reasons. But I will agree with the OP on one issue-- all things being equal, the woman is going to have a tougher time than the man. I just don’t think it’s insurmountable for the right candidate. And I actually think the US is ready for a woman president. Change is in the air, and Generic White Guy doesn’t say much about change.

10

Hillary was an awful candidate. The line about the most qualified candidate was a good example of how insultingly stupid her candidacy was. She had all of her husbands baggage with none of the charm.
A good female candidate would have an advantage because they are harder to attack and the press would love the glass ceiling story. The problem is there have been a lack of good candidates.

11

The last candidate to get more popular votes while still losing the electoral college was a Senator for eight years just like Hillary Clinton was – but he followed it up with eight years as VP instead of four years as SoS; and all of that was after he spent eight years in the House of Representatives, like Hillary Clinton didn’t.

Do you think Gore would’ve beaten Trump?

12

She was a Senator for 8 years (compared to 4 years in the House for GHW Bush), Secretary of State for 4 years (compared to GHW Bush’s 1-2 years runs at a couple of different foreign policy posts), and spent 8 years in the White House involved in policy work (same as GHW Bush).

Saying GHW Bush is more qualified on paper really depends on assigning minimal value to Clinton’s time as First Lady as compared to Bush’s time as Vice President. But neither First Lady nor Vice President has any actual duties that give them relevant experience. It’s down to what they actually did during that time. Not at all clear to me that Bush did more than Clinton.

Of course, “qualification” is an inherently disputed value. But I don’t think it’s a “how on earth”-level quandary why so many people would regard her as the most qualified candidate going back many decades.

13

I’m guessing Oprah Winfrey is not on your short list of candidates.

14

Change was in the air, but now-- after too big a change-- the fear in the air trumps (as it were) the desire for change.

I didn’t say only a White Guy can be President. I said only a White Guy can defeat Donald Trump.

And it can’t be “Generic White Guy.” It needs to be a leader with some charisma. So far, no Democrats have emerged (male or female) that fit that description.

I appreciate the different points of view being expressed, especially the ones that disagree with me. I wanted this to be a debate (of sorts), so thank you. Logical points noted, but I think in the privacy of the voting booth, it’s the gut that pulls the lever not the brain, i.e., fear, not hope.

15

I’m a white male conservative Republican, and could easily see myself voting for a number of women for President, and I (respectfully) disagree with the OP. One line in particular stuck out to me:

I don’t think that’s true at all. Trump’s not a very good candidate. He only won because he was going against a particularly bad one. Think back to 3 years before Obama’s '08 campaign. He wasn’t perceived as the unstoppable political juggernaut that he is thought of as today by some. There could easily be another Obama-esque candidate lurking out there in the wings that could sweep to victory in '20.

16

I think there will be a woman president, but it may not be in the mold of a Hillary Clinton. Nikki Hailey may not be everyone’s idea of the ideal first female president, but she’s a potential rising political star. If you don’t like her, keep your eye on someone like Tulsi Gabbard. She’d pass the ‘tough’ test, which is what a lot of Americans instinctively look for in a CiC. And I think she’s still considered an outsider given her background and that she represents Hawaii. She’s a moderate democrat so she’ll probably bring in liberals while not scaring away moderate conservatives and independents.

I agree that Hillary was probably not the most likable female candidate that could have been nominated and that future women will be better than her in that regard. But that doesn’t mean that sexism wasn’t a factor in this campaign and in the tarring and feathering of candidate Clinton. It wasn’t the only factor - I’ll grant you that. But I don’t buy that sexism didn’t play at least some role in her decades-long character assassination.

17

I think you are just wrong on this. It’s not only a white guy that can beat Trump. I seriously doubt Bernie, as white as they come and presumably, a guy, could or would beat Trump. What you need is the right CANDIDATE to beat him. Bring in the right person (black, white, hispanic, asian or other, male or female) and I think they would beat him. The biggest challenge facing the Democrats right now isn’t Trump or the Republicans…it’s their own party tearing itself apart in the Progressives verse The Establishment wars. The Dems seem to be the party able to snatch defeat from the slavering jaws of victory, and it doesn’t matter what the color of the candidate is or if they have a Y chromosome or not at this point.

18

I am pretty sure that most Americans would welcome a female president. Hillary just sucked so much even a Trump could win against her.

That’s kind of an achievement.

19

I agree with you, ThelmaLou. I hate that it’s true, but I do believe it’s true.

It’s not just Hillary Clinton. It’s Nancy Pelosi. It’s Kamala Harris. It’s Maxine Waters. It’s Elizabeth Warren. It’s Diane Feinstein. I could go on.

Every one of these women are mocked for appearance and temperament, things that are usually completely overlooked for men in the same offices. I often engaged in an exercise during the election that yielded interesting results. When discussing Hillary Clinton’s suitability for the office of President, and the responder replied that they “just didn’t like her, not that it has anything to do with her being a woman,” I would ask, “So what woman do you think would be suitable?”

In every single instance, the responder was unable to come up with a name off the top of their head. They would often get back to me within a day or two, naming one or maybe two women. But they always, always had to think about it.

I think there is a sub rosa strata of misogyny that runs through our country. A lot of it is borne of patriarchal religious upbringing that many women in this country do not shake – and men, either. They can’t quite put their finger on why they don’t think a woman is qualified – even if she’s already doing her job well – but they just “know” she’s not. They “just don’t like” her.

If Hillary Clinton wasn’t the “right” female candidate, then I don’t know who is. She is a woman who had a dream to be the first female President of the United States. What is wrong with that? It’s perfectly ok if you’re a man. She devoted her life to realizing this dream. She spent her entire career in public service, bettering the lives of others.

She married Bill, and that may have been the worst choice she ever made in her life. And then was chastised for standing by him, even by people who claimed that the sanctity of marriage is one of the most important things in the world.

Some of Hillary’s accomplishments, for those who love to say she didn’t have any: Partial List of Hillary Clinton’s Accomplishments. People may not agree with them, but they were accomplishments.

Before you say they’re no big deal, I invite you to stack them up against any man’s who ran in the Republican primary race in 2016.

She is not the best candidate. She’s lousy at campaigning. She admits this. But several studies found an interesting thing. Here’s an article that describes the results: We Love Women in Office Until they Ask for a Promotion. Then we vilify them.

Watch what happens to any woman we may advance on the Democratic side. She’ll be vilified in exactly the same way as Hillary. Any woman arising on the Republican side would be likewise vilified in the Republican primary. (Including Nikki Haley. God, what an idiot. She only looks good next to the Seriously Scary Women of the Republican Party such as Carly Fiorina, Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin. Susan Collins would be terrific, but she’s too smart to run.)

I don’t know how to change it. But I do know that continually pushing women for the presidency at a time when the country is not ready for it is not a good strategy to change it. You have to be at the table to facilitate change, and that won’t happen if we keep trying to make people eat their broccoli. (Hat tip to GHW Bush, who was eminently qualified for the office. As was Hillary Clinton, far more than the clown presently occupying the space.)

I think a woman might leapfrog into the presidency as a Vice. My pick for 2020: Sherrod Brown/Kamala Harris.

20

Ummm … I don’t know if you’ve been around for the last year, but President Trump has been mocked incessantly for his appearance and temperament. Just do a search here on the Dope for the word “orange” if you need a cite.

I don’t think it’s a great surprise that most ordinary folks can’t name many politicians off the top of their head. I think you’re imagining sexism where ignorance is a better explanation.