We have an awful lot of grocery delivery over here - that’s maybe a cultural difference to take into account. Take that away and granted there is a problem.
Also, as I highlighted, the passport is not just about vaccination - also post-COVID immunity and testing; and I don’t see why “unvaccinated for medical reasons” can’t be added to that. We’ll see. Flat out anti-vaxxers can pay for testing, I’m fine with that. The grey area will be “religious objection”, I guess.
It isnt “coercion” if you are killing your neighbors. Are laws against murder = coercion?
Look, as far as I am concerned, once the vaccine is available to everyone, you have two choices:
get the shot
or
stay home.
Period. No flying, no parties, no theme parks, no concerts, nothing where people gather.
You can buy food, have it delivered. If you are poor food banks can deliver.
Now sure, I am not saying lock them in their house and going to the grocery store- IF they wear a mask and social distance -can be OK, but this is a fucking pandemic. Covid has killed 2.75 Million people in one years time. “Oh it’s coercion” - yes, goddamn it is. And we need to coerce those maskholes and covidiots.
Jackasses like the Governor of Texas should be imprisoned for crimes against humanity. Anti-vaxxers- same.
They can be put in a cell and the door sealed shut. This isnt a religious objection to say- not wearing a headcovering or not paying for abortions. You dont get to kill 2.75M people and say “religious objection”.
Let’s say somehow we start requiring a COVID-19 vaccine passport to get into all public places. When do we stop requiring it? What metrics determine the decision to no longer require it?
I could live with something like that too. There has to be some reasonable opt out that can still promote safe socializing. Otherwise, we might as well just physically force the vaccine on them.
Obviously we cant force or coerce the few who medially cant take the vaccine. Give them a vaccine passport and note that. Clearly, however, they’d have to mask, etc.
But I cant agree to any opt out for anti-vaxxers. They get nothing.
Here’s something you may find interesting - Mrs Trep alerted me to the fact that there was a YouGov poll (or rather a set of them) from early March on (UK) attitudes to a vaccine passport.
Overall, almost six in ten Britons (58%) would support the introduction of a vaccine passport system as soon as possible while the vaccine rollout is still ongoing, including a quarter (28%) who strongly support the idea. Some 34% of the population would be opposed to the idea, however…
…Opposition to a rapid rollout of a vaccine passport scheme is highest among younger Britons [the vast majority of whom are not yet vaccinated, of course], with 18-24 year olds split 45% in support and 42% opposed. However, when asked about introducing a vaccine passport system after the vaccination programme is complete – rather than immediately – opposition gives way, with some 60% of 18-24 year olds in support and only 27% opposed…
…Among the general public, support for a vaccine passport system after the vaccination programme ends rises to seven in ten (70%), with only 20% opposed to a proof of vaccination scheme once everyone has been offered the jab.
My bold, my parenthetical note.
So, a majority would like to see a passport right now. Young people, who are mostly unvaccinated, don’t like this (no surprise) but most of them (60%) agree that once rollout is complete there should be a vaccine passport. Approval rating of a passport post-rollout is age related, topping out at 85% (!!) in 65-plus.
There is also a poll related to which places should require the use of a passport. To return to your earlier question about grocery stores (supermarkets), even without specifying any adverse context (like a surge in cases) 31% are in favour of a passport being required (59% against).
I’m not surprised there’s meaningful support for it. I usually only get push back if I question the ethics. People are tired and scared, this looks like the quickest path to “normal”. I’m just not sure I want my new normal to include ID checks at the grocery store. Good luck, homeless people.
Well, no system is going to be perfect - there will always be someone who falls through the cracks. To what extent the homeless use supermarkets rather than charity food outlets, I don’t know - and the latter would, I presume, tailor their rules to best fit their clients. But the assumption that homeless people don’t have mobile phones is a bit too sweeping. A quick-and-lazy google suggests
Australia ~ 95% have mobile phones US ~ 94% UK ~ 90% (but significant issues with internet access)
I’m not staking the mortgage on how reliable or representative these figures are - they were just the first few that came up. But I don’t think it’s a straightforward case of exclusion.
I guess it comes down to the fact that as a society, we have to come up with something that works.
LONDON — Vaccination passports will “definitely” be necessary to cross international borders in the near future, Boris Johnson said in his clearest hint about the U.K.'s plans for resuming global travel.
Speaking during a visit to Middlesbrough, the U.K. prime minister said other countries and the aviation industry are interested in this policy and “there’s a logic to that.”
“There’s definitely going to be a world in which international travel will use vaccine passports,” he said. “I think when it comes to trying to make sure that we give maximum confidence to businesses and customers in the U.K., there are three things – there’s immunity whether you have had it before so you have natural antibodies, whether you have been vaccinated, and of course whether you have had a test.”
The same story from Sky News:
And Mr Johnson also admitted that a similar COVID certification scheme - showing whether someone has had a vaccine, has immunity from previously having had coronavirus, or has tested negative - “will be useful” within the UK.
He has previously suggested Britons might have to show such evidence of their COVID status before entering a pub.
“I think when it comes to trying to make sure that we give maximum confidence to business and to customers here in the UK, there are three things - there’s your immunity, whether you have had it before, so you have got natural antibodies, whether you have been vaccinated, and then of course whether you have had a test,” Mr Johnson added.
I can understand the public doubts about relying on a private company organising a vaccine passport scheme in the UK after the hugely expensive Track and Trace scheme that delivered little.
When governments go off into consultant-land and ministers demand a system to be delivered as a matter of national emergency without the usual conditions and oversight, there is no shortage of offers from the usual group of companies ready to milk the treasury dry.
I just got a little card with record of the batch number after my jab and a date. Not even my name on it. No proof of ID was required. Given all the millions vaccinations done so far, I don’t see how they are going to go back and try to verify who has been vaccinated and who has not.
For holidays in the sun, there are several countries that have stated that they will admit UK nationals on the strength of the success of the national vaccine rollout. Maybe deals can be done on a bi-lateral basis.
For use within the UK…outside of ticketed events, I don’t see how that is going to be practical. Is there going to be doorman or security guard at every shop or place of entertainment checking everyone? Does Boris have a cunning plan?
I got a printout with name, social security number and the batch number of the vaccine. I have made a photocopy, a scan and a photo on my phone - just to be on the safe side. They did put it into a computer system, though, so I think it is probably linked to my social security number, which here is Italy is also used for public health access.
I’m a little confused. I’ve been an avid traveller for a few decades. An International Certificates of Vaccinations already exists. I’ve been filling and carrying mine for all of those years. (Pretty sure was only asked to show it once, somewhere in SAmerica, for Yellow Fever!)
We can’t be the only travellers with these booklets, why aren’t they the go to, I wonder?
And should we take it with, when we get vaccinated for Covid? Feels like something that SHOULD be in there.
I have literally never heard of these booklets. Where did you get this?
I think that card isn’t very relevant to COVID. If I’m going to a place with yellow fever and I didn’t get vaccinated, the only idiot who gets sick is me. I’m not bringing the disease to the locals, who have already been exposed to it. (I would definitely get vaccinated, of course!) By contrast, if I travel somewhere without a COVID vaccination, I could spread the disease to unvaccinated people there, or pick up the disease there and take it back to my home country.
When I traveled to some place a few years ago, I was told I should get a hepatitus vaccination. I went to the doctor and found out I had already been vaccinated against it (I had traveled to a nearby country earlier as a child). I didn’t bring any proof of this to the airport and nobody asked for that proof.
I took my WHO approved “International Certificate of Vaccine or Prophylaxis” with me and had the pharmacist note and sign for both my shots. No idea if it’ll be useful, but I figured since I had it for other vaccines anyway, I may as well keep it updated for this.
I’m of the same mind, every jab I’ve had since 1983 is recorded, and it’s a lot! It’s seems silly to get a vaccine needed for travel and NOT record it there.
I mostly want it recorded so I can look if I’m asked at a border. Hubs is getting his shot in 6 days, so I’ll send him with his booklet and see how it works out.
I would think countries with universal health care will manage well reliably identifying who’s had the jab. There already exists a large (by province here), data base with everyone’s medical care tied to an insurance number. That’s gotta help i think.
It’s going to be interesting to see what they come up with. Too bad the vaccine didn’t leave a tiny scar like the smallpox vaccine did, haha!
They did put it into a computer system, though, so I think it is probably linked to my social security number, which here is Italy is also used for public health access.