The "walkaway movement to abandon liberalism" is astroturf.

A few points.

First, the people I listen to who have talked about ‘walking away’ from the left are not walking away from ‘liberalism’. In fact, they are leaving the left because they are enlightenment liberals who believe the left has become illiberal, abandoning traditional left-wing beliefs like free expression, free speech, free trade, staying out of people’s bedrooms and tolerance of intellectual diversity, and instead have embraced hard left socialist economics and identity politics.

These people are most certainly not running to the Republicans. And most of them can’t stand Donald Trump. But they are sick of watching academics being destroyed by left-wing twitter mobs over an intemperate comment or a political stance not entirely aligned with the outrage du-jure, or hounded off of campuses because they are white people who won’t participate in a ‘white people get out’ day on their campus.

The people I’m talking about are people who have generally been on the center or even fairly far left like Sam Harris, Bret and Eric Weinstein, Richard Dawkins, Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin. You may want to hand wave these people away, but they have a HUGE audience. And unless auditoriums are being filled by Russian bots, that doesn’t explain it. These guys are doing speaking tours and selling out almost everywhere they go. Harris has such a large, dedicated audience that he is the fourth most popular podcast on Patreon, earning between $8K and $10K per podcast. Those Russian bots sure have a lot of money. He does sell-out speaking tours across the country. Dave Rubin has 800,000 youtube followers. Jordan Peterson’s book has been on the best seller charts for many weeks. Joe Rogan, who has allied himself largely with this group of people, has 3 million subscribers. And those are just the people I happen to listen to.

Collectively, these people pull in bigger viewership numbers than CNN. And they have an audience that is far more engaged. There are many, many others. Ignore them at your peril.

Not quite. Try this:

  1. The Democrats have tried to build a coalition of aggrieved identity groups, then lock them together through ‘intersectionality’ so that they are all forced to support each other and vote as a bloc for left-wing candidates.
  2. These identity groups do not always agree with each other, leading to conflict. Feminists are colliding with transgendered people. Black issues are colliding with the policy of unrestricted open immigration. Muslim immigrants have values directly opposed to most other Democrat identity groups. The coalition is cracking.

For example, the black community as a whole is more socially conservative than the white community. 70% of black voters voted for proposition 8 in California to ban gay marriage. Obama himself opposed gay marriage before a national election forced him to change his views. Blacks are also more likely than whites to support traditional roles for men and women in the home and the work force. And black people tend to be more religious than white people, so when Democrats are seen as being anti-religion (or at least anti-Christian), it’s a problem.

Black people voted Democrat because Democrats were the party of the civil rights act, and because in the 70’s and 80’s Democrats fought for affirmative action for blacks, housing for blacks, forced busing to get blacks out of the worst schools, etc.

Fast forward to today, and the housing projects aren’t looking so good, and the inner cities are being neglected. The Democrats’ focus on gay rights, feminism, global warming and open borders are not ‘black’ issues, but rather the issues of white educated liberals in coastal cities.

Educational choice (widely supported by blacks) is now supported by Republicans and opposed by Democrats because Democrats are in the pocket of the teacher’s unions.
The worst cities for blacks to live in are all one-party Democrat-run cities, and they’ve been that way for decades. They’re starting to notice that. For example, from WWII until the 1960’s there was a huge migration of blacks from the south into Northern cities, which helped those cities and states turn blue. Historically, about 90% of America’s blacks lived in the south from the start of the country until 1920. by 1970 only slightly more than 50% of blacks lived in the South, and that number stayed relatively fixed for two decades. But as the inner cities collapsed and violence and poverty rose, blacks started moving back to the south - mostly from states like New York, California, Illinois and Michigan.

Politically, there was a huge tidal shift in the 60’s when the Democrats captured working class blacks along with other blue collar workers in the civil rights era. They shifted again when Reagan split off many blue collar workers from the Democrats, who became ‘Reagan Democrats’. Then they shifted again with Bill Clinton, who recaptured blue collar workers including many black families from George HW Bush , who was seen as an out-of-touch elite who didn’t care about the working class.

The Democrats better hope that another shift doesn’t happen and blacks walk away from a party that seems to have abandoned working class issues in favor of ‘social justice’ for groups blacks aren’t particularly fond of. The Secret of Trump’s success is that he unexpectedly turned the blue collar working vote back to the Republicans. If he does the same with black people, the Democrats are in deep trouble.

Open immigration is also a problem for low income black voters, as they are disproportionately affected by the influx of low-income workers who are now in a new preferred minority.

But the #Walkaway movement isn’t really about blue collar black voters. The really scary thing for Democrats is that a lot of it is coming from highly educated people, including university professors who still believe in the old 60’s radical values of free speech and free expression. Watching their colleagues on the left being destroyed by some outrage archaeologist pouring through twitter histories for something to be outraged about is pushing some of them away from the Democrats.

In the case of the Weinsteins and Dawkins, they are sickened by what they see as the abandonment of science on the left - particularly in evolutionary biology, where you can now have your career destroyed for citing well established science regarding gender roles and the genetic, physical and mental differences between men and women.

The James Damore situation at Google has also ‘woken up’ a lot of left-leaning techies, who watched that guy have his career destroyed for citing the actual science regarding how men and women tend to differ in what jobs they want to do.

It’s easy to get them back. Find another Bill Clinton, except without the sexual baggage. A moderate governor from a mid-western or southern state who can speak to the poverty there and who is willing to have a ‘Sister Souljah’ moment and take on his own side when it gets crazy. Someone who believes in Capitalism, but with a stronger safety net. Someone willing to take on the teacher’s unions and admit that the educational system is failing minorities, and not just because teachers don’t make enough money. A politician like that would destroy Trump.

Instead, the Democrats will probably run someone like Elizabeth Warren, Keith Ellison or Bernie Sanders, and lose again. Or they’ll wind up with a cadre of young know-nothing socialists like Alexandria ocasio-Cortez in the party, and they’ll drive it off a cliff.

But by all means, just assume that #walkaway can’t possibly be real and all things negative for Democrats can be hand-waved away as Russian interference. Because that’s how you get more Trump.

On the bright side, you’ll always have the Russians to blame. Who would have guessed that the Democrats would morph into the John Birch Society so quickly?

I don’t doubt that the Democrat political party is having problems with maintaining a connection with all their constituents, at least in part due to russian propaganda intended to enhance and inflate differences within the party.

However I don’t think this “walkaway” business is going to be a successful part of that, or even that it’s intended to be. Based on the numbers, the only people even seeing this bullshit are conservatives. That suggests that they’re the target audience. It’s intended to make them think that they’re winners and that the many, many voices pointing out that they’re tools for following Trump are in fact a waning, loser minority.

Well, I think the Democrats are the last people who should want to believe that Obama only got such a high percentage of black voters because he was black. Because the Republicans have a few black candidates of their own. If it’s truly about just voting your race, what happens if the Democrats field someone like Elizabeth Warren against a black Republican populist or a black Republican Senator like Tim Scott?

Plus, isn’t it kind of demeaning to suggest that black people will vote for a black politician? Or that women will vote for a woman because she’s a woman? Would YOU vote for a politician simply because he or she has the same skin color, even if their politics were the opposite of yours and the candidate who said the things you believe in was of another race? Because I can tell you that I don’t care one bit about stuff like that. A black female candidate who supports free markets and liberal values would get my vote even if my own twin brother ran against her on a policy of redistribution and identity politics.

I think most people are like that. Obama didn’t get the black vote entirely because he was black, he got it because the black community felt like he was speaking to them and their problems. And that’s exactly what he did in 2008, emphasizing his religion, his family, his community organizing for blacks, etc. He promised them an end to racism and a fair playing field. In other words, he wasn’t just a black politician - he was a black politician who spoke to black issues and promised them that, as one of them he’d make sure their voices were heard.

After 8 years of Obama, did the lives of black people get better or worse? If they didn’t get better, then I think Obama did serious damage to the next black politician who tries to get the black vote simply because he’s black.

But yeah, Hillary also has to take a lot of the blame. But that should scare Democrats, because Hillary tried running on social justice. Instead of telling people how she was specifically going to improve their lives, she largely ignored them in favor of a campaign that emphasized her female status and how the women were going to run things once she was elected, and she demonized the other side as a bunch of deplorables.

The problem for the Democrats is that she was basically running on what is now the Democratic party line. It’s the deplorables against the enlightened, and the enlightened are collecting up all the aggrieved groups that also hate the deplorables and attempting to convert them into one giant voting bloc by promising them political power. That only works when those aggrieved groups want the same thing and don’t wind up turning on each other.

So you think Sam Harris’s audience is conservatives? Have you ever listened to his podcast? Do you think Richard Dawkins is a conservative? These two were part of the ‘four horsemen’ along with Dan Dennett and Christopher Hitchens - hard core athiests on the left who attacked religion every chance they got.

I will grant you that they are gaining more conservative followers and listeners, but they started with audiences that were almost exclusively on the left. This makes them far more dangerous to the Democrats than right-wing ideologues like Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, because those people preach to the converted and are even useful to the left because they often say stupid things. But now you have an increasing number of thoughtful, highly educated people with large left-wing audiences who are slowly abandoning the left they called home, and telling their audiences why.

The same thing is happening on the right, with the more thoughtful and intellectual people on the right abandoning the Trump wing of the party and joining with the people who abandoned the left for the same reason - because both parties have ‘bases’ that are rapidly abandoning their principles. On the left, it’s the commitment to free speech and the sharing of ideas - even uncomfortable and unpleasant ones. On the right, it the abandonment of civility, free trade, non-interventionist government and reasonable immigration.

Maybe all this will lead to the first truly viable third party in the U.S. Or maybe it will manifest itself in a lack of engagement and all these people will just stay home in the next election and cede the field to the radicals and the reactionaries. That does not bode well for the future.

If there’s a single issue that is most important to black voters aside from “bread and butter” Democratic issues like health care and the minimum wage, it’s Black Lives Matter. And the Democratic party is moving entirely in the direction that’s likely to motivate black voters on that issue. Further, the Republican party is moving towards white nationalism as a policy, by continuing to tolerate bigots like Steve King and Steve Bannon, and celebrating Trump, who spread racist conspiracy theories about the most beloved living person among black Americans (among other racist things he’s said), and much more.

Another important thing to note as far as the voting public: the Democratic party is (finally!) actually holding their own to account on sexual harassment and assault, further moving women voters in polling data towards the Democratic party, while the Republicans continue to tolerate harassment and abuse, and celebrate Trump, who bragged about sexual assault and violating the consent of women. The polling, and special elections, are showing that the robust focus on social justice issues, in addition to the standard Democratic support for issues like universal health care, higher minimum wage, and infrastructure efforts (promised but so far ignored by Trump), is working pretty well. But we’ll know for sure in a few months.

^This. I haven’t seen hide nor hair of the supposed ‘testimonials’ (by ‘people’ claiming to be former Democrats) since that first day of my awareness of the Walkaway initiative, on which a CNN host had tweeted a link to a Washington Post article about it.

“Walkaway” is primarily a morale-boost for the base, as you say, begbert2. Perhaps there were hopes when the initiative was crafted that it might actually influence some Democrats, but by now they know that’s not working.

Yes the ‘Democrats are nothing but a collection of warring factions’ narrative, advanced in its most hackneyed form by the “Sam Stone” poster here, is being promoted hard and continually by the Internet Research Agency trolls and bots. Your real enemy is the Democrat beside you! Purity tests for all! Black against white! Latino against gay! Female against Asian! Oh, the carnage!

Meanwhile, Democrats are going about our business, registering voters, checking to see that our registrations haven’t been hacked, and preparing to vote.

I don’t know or care who Sam Harris is; I don’t pay attention to podcasts in general.

As I said, there’s a reasonable chance that some people are questioning their political parties - we know republicans are, because Trump and his ilk are racist shitheads, and, well, I haven’t heard any convincing evidence that Dems are jumping ship but I’ll certainly allow that it’s possible. (Shades of it certainly happened during the last presidential election with many Dems staying home or blindly voting Trump, in both cases due in large part to russian propaganda.)

All that being said, I’m still pretty sure this specific bit of russian propaganda isn’t targeted at liberals, and it’s not in any real sense describing any real phenomenon. If any democrats happen to be becoming disaffected at the same time this hashtag exists, the chronological confluence is simply coincidence.

I already pointed out that Rubin is a libertarian with a sprinkling of superficially SJW-style positions on social issues such as gay rights, while Rogan is a libertarian with even less conventional “liberal cred”. The academic Weinstein brothers had no particular public profile as political pundits (plosively) till they figured out how to monetize the name recognition acquired from Bret Weinstein’s recent spat with Evergreen. Dawkins is a UK LibDem. Peterson is a Canadian psychologist of (to me at least) unknown political affiliation. Lumping them all together as “generally been on the center or even fairly far left” is just vague waffle.

Well, so does Donald Trump. Who actually definitely was a registered Democrat in the recent past. So what?

Your main error here seems to be in the assumption that any of the people you’re talking about were ever in fact widely recognized as a mainstream voice of political liberalism/leftism or the Democratic Party per se. Rather, along with other pop pundits like the late Christopher Hitchens, most of them are self-styled (and self-promoting) “contrarians” who are seeking attention by being “edgy” about the political establishment. There’s absolutely nothing “edgy” these days about criticizing Trumpian conservatism as unethical and bad for society, so they get their clicks instead from well-worn conservative-style croaking about the stereotypical liberal boogymen of “postmodernism” and “political correctness” and “Cultural Marxism” and so on.

Liberal “identity groups” have always disagreed with each other in various ways, and their “coalitions” have always been full of cracks. It’s how we roll.

Cite, please. And scientists sulking that “the left” is insufficiently supportive of science is like abortion-rights activists sulking that “the left” is insufficiently supportive of reproductive freedom: where are they going to go instead, to the creationism-loving, climate-science-denying, biology-myth-endorsing conservatives? Suuuuure.

Nonsense. Damore was fired for trying to promote at his workplace his entirely unscientific views and uninformed recommendations about the alleged implications of studies on biological gender differences for his employer’s HR policies, which completely ignored (among other things) the sociological aspects of gender differences in career choices.

Sexist/misogynist rationales for gender differences in social outcomes often feature this same enormous blind spot about non-biological aspects of gender issues. Pseudoscientific gender-bloviators think that if they notice some social phenomenon that exhibits some kind of gender differential, and find some research on biological sex-linked brain differences that could hypothetically cause such a phenomenon, then hey presto! They’ve successfully explained the phenomenon as intrinsically biological in nature!

And anybody who accuses them of sexism is just being anti-science and suppressing their objective rational conclusions! Waaaaahhh, the mean old jackbooted liberal ideology police have struck again! :rolleyes:

This sort of idiocy was particularly prominent in the infamous “Larry Summers Harvard speech” where Summers attempted to assign currently unequal gender ratios among high-end university science faculty to intrinsic sex-linked biological differences. Supported by an impressively scientific anecdote of his toddler daughter spontaneously calling her toy trucks “mommy truck” and “baby truck” or some such. :dubious: Dude, that’s not how you actually do research on the underlying causes of gender differentials in academic employment.

Your “concern” for the ways in which the Democratic Party might improve its appeal to various self-promoting “contrarian” pundits is duly noted and appreciated.

You’ll be relieved to be reminded that in fact the Democratic Party
recently has significantly increased its percentage-point lead over the Republican Party in official affiliation, and also that Republican majorities are increasingly dependent on the elderly as well as relatively declining demographic groups such as whites, rural voters, and Christians. Gosh, if only the Republicans had a concerned observer like you to give them some helpful advice about how to improve their appeal!
TL;DR: Sam Stone is hoping that popular mockery of a blatant conservative astroturf/cosmoturf PR initiative to portray modern liberal/Democratic politics as on the verge of collapse can be deflected by pointing to a handful of popular “contrarian” pundits offering “edgy” critiques of various controversial left-wing movements. #FlounceAway

I was going to write a crisp rebuttal, but then I read Kimstu’s. So, pip-pip!, ditto, and out.

I agree with Sam Stone. He’s just giving a few examples, but there are more. Kanye West comes to mind - and it’s telling how all that is dismissed or neglected in the discussions on this board. Sure, Kanye is not important to you, meaning the royal you, but what he says and the actions he takes do have an impact upon the very people you are analyzing at arms length and from afar. The real problem then becomes one of enagagement - and then people bemoan “oh why doesn’t anyone come out and vote?”

Like I’ve said before I work side by side with people that people on this board only analyze from afar and Sam Stone is about the only poster I can recall who has an accurate view of the situation - and actually seems to see these groups as flesh and blood humans instead of pawns in some political chess game with artificial rules written by the “enlightened”.

Huh. Not sure why it wouldn’t show up for me. I copied and pasted it from Google Translate. Chronos succeeded somehow.

“Robot” is a relatively new word, coined by Karl Čapek for his 1921 play “R.U.R. (Rossum’s Universal Robots)”. It’s derived from Old Church Slavonic “raboti”, meaning, basically, slave.

A surprising number of “Russian” words are simply Cyrillic versions of their foreign counterparts.

Counter-Clockwork Orange.

This bullshit is still around; I literally just encountered some Facebook idiot using it as an excuse to not vote for Biden.