The zombie wasn’t curled into a ball centered over Dale’s chest, so he wouldn’t have to “bench” a hundred pounds. I was responding to speculation about the zombie being big and fat. He was neither.
Other than the part where the zombie started ripping into him, Dale had it under control. He had it by the shoulders and was keeping it’s mouth away. If he pushed it off, he would lose the grip that was keeping it from eating him and he night have gotten bitten in the process. Even if he successfully pushed it off, they would start the fight over from scratch and he might not be able to keep it away the second time. It’s like when two boxers “hug.” Once they are separated, anything can happen. If I were in the situation, I might have held it at arms length until help arrived. Of course, thanks to Dale, I know better now, but it wasn’t a bad tactic at the time.
I found this episode frustrating to watch. Carl seemed determined to be the biggest troublemaker possible: twice sneaking into the barn, mouthing off at Carol, stealing the gun, provoking the walker. I liked Carl, but I can’t feel sympathy for any guilt he’s feeling for leading the walker right to the house after he was such a punk all episode.
Dale was annoying, but his writing annoyed me more. Darryl interrogates Randall and we learn that Randall’s people are murdering rapists. (It was odd he shared that anecdote anyway – he’s trying to convince Darryl he’s not like them, but 1) it’s already known his group is bad, and 2) he didn’t seem too horrified by what they’d done). Then Darryl goes out to tell the others what he learned, but he doesn’t repeat exactly what Randall says, only that it would be bad to encounter his group. So when Dale starts confronting everyone about preserving civility and life is precious and all that, he’s doing so from a position of ignorance. Would he shut the hell up if he knew they were dealing with literal murdering rapists? Maybe, but we’ll never know because they offed him at the end. I liked Dale, but I this episode made me glad to see him go.
I hated Carl and Dale this week more than I hate Lori and Andrea every week, which is amazing.
Oh come on now…its okay to have someone to speak up for preserving humanity in the face of an apocalypse, even if it is for its own stupid sake and sometimes unwieldy, impractical or otherwise to do so. Dale was the conscience of the group and they will miss him, even if some of his lines were…badly written.
Of all people I certainly didn’t expect YOU to complain about a human being in a television show trying to convey a feeling of…humanity in an inhuman world. Oh wait, yes I did.
Speaking up for preserving humanity . . . that and a couple bucks will get you eaten by a zombie. Policy arguments are all that really matters. People should argue about doing this or doing that based on the possible upsides and downsides and their relative probability, not because this preserves humanity while that doesn’t.
Dale was NOT averse to shooting/killing zombies. The show has NEVER been about killing zombies. Its about the human interaction that results from an impossible situation. Dale was an integral, if predictable, part of getting the group to see through their bloodlust in certain situations. I am surprised that anyone would celebrate his untimely removal from the group, given the role he played as their conscience. He saved Andrea from herself on more than one occasion. He provided guidance to Glenn when needed. He saw the twisted core inside of Shane. These are not things that the group can casually discard.
At any rate, it looks like Glenn, Daryl and Rick will have to compensate for the moral compass. I am not going to say that Dale wasn’t annoying as a character because he could be, but he was an old man, a survivor and he almost always served the side of good in the show and its sad that he died like he did.
Amen, brother.
I don’t see how you possibly could think I believed the opposite.
If by “their conscience” you mean “self-centered nag,” then I agree with you. Everything Dale said in the last episode boiled down to “I would feel bad if we killed Randall.” While everyone else was talking about the practicalities of the situation, Dale was talking about his own emotions. Good riddance.
And I’m fine with that stuff–nothing I’ve said denigrates those things he did. I’m talking about him in the last episode.
“Moral compass” and “side of the good” don’t mean anything. What means something is not getting eaten by zombies or killed by harriers (ha–can’t believe that word just slipped out–anyone guess which book(s) I’m reading now)?
Killing Randall because they think he is a murdering rapist or letting him live because it us not proven is the difference between murdering apes and civilized humans.
Dale lives!!
I think the biggest part of killing Randall wasn’t that he might be a murdering rapist, but that he will lead a bunch of murdering rapists to their safe haven if he ever leaves.
Why do you assume Carl’s been immersed in gun safety his entire life? :dubious: Yes, Rick uses firearms as part of his job & might go hunting, but that doesn’t mean Carl learned anything about guns. Given how opposed Lori was to telling handle a firearm after the world as they know it ended it’s highly unlikely she allowed Carl near guns when everything was normal. When Rick visited his house the pilot I don’t recall him even looking for guns or comenting on how they were missing (like he did with all the photos) so Lori probally didn’t even allow any in the house (other than Rick’s sidearm, which he would’ve kept locked away in a safe).
There are no guarantees, but I do think it’s a pretty safe assumption that a police officer’s kid in the rural south (where guns in homes are very common) is going to have gun safety drilled into him from a pretty young age. I would be surprised if he hadn’t.
These aren’t mutually exclusive. Dale can be a dick on occasion, but he can also genuinely care about the humanity of the group.
No. Obviously he is of course projecting his own part in the act, but beyond that he’s thinking of the big picture. Granted, if it comes down to getting killed, staying alive is the first priority. But it’s not the only consideration, and not something to be taken lightly. And giving in to being too automatically ruthless in mindset leads ultimately to a life that is barely worth living.
Do you seriously not believe in the value of humanity? Or do you just question it’s value in zombie land?
Humanity has pragmatic uses too. If you are just going to wipe it off the table, it will completely destroy the internal group dynamics and undermine any semblance of teamwork.
Ever or just in dangerous scenarios? Do you think it makes no difference in military or diplomatic engagements in real life?
I’ll agree with that.
Something I noticed about Randall that I haven’t seen mentioned here yet:
When Carl sneaks into the barn to gaze creepily at him, Randall starts going on about how he’s got a bunch of nice friends and that said friends will keep Carl and his group safe if he would just set Randall free. I’m undecided on whether or not I think this was evidence of Randall being not at all on the level (wanting to genuinely lead the group to the marauders or lead the marauders to the farm), or if it was just him saying anything he could think of to save himself. Coming as it did, minutes after he had just told Darryl about one of the atrocities that the group committed, it certainly made me doubt Randall much more at the time.
Me, too, but it’s a TV show, and they’ve already adjusted quite a bit of “reality” to make an entertaining tale. 
The problem as I saw it was that Randal knew the farm and he knew there was people there and that they were in pretty good shape with weapons and supplies.
If they let him go then they have to trust that he won’t go to the group he was with and bring them there. Rick and co. have no way of knowing if he was an accomplice to their actions or if he’d give them the info out of fear. One way or the other they are at risk if he gets released. There is no law or organisation to help or protect them. All they have is their guns and walls. Horrible choice but IMO Randall has to be killed. I was surprised they were even playing with the idea of hanging him as that would have almost certainly caused mental pain before and physical pain during. Just shoot the poor fucker and add the anguish of the action to the huge amount of shite already in your head about how your world had fallen apart.
If the guys Rick and co. met in the bar hadn’t of acted like they did none of this would have happened. It’s on them.
Generalizations, assumptions, and stereotypes don’t apply to fictional characters. The creator gets to create exactly the character he wants to. So long as the situation isn’t literally impossible, it doesn’t matter if the character doesn’t fit your preconceptions about what traits this general type of person should have. And the impossible thing is flexible, especially when it’s a story about the undead.
Knock it off. This is the wrong forum for political arguments and trash-talking other posters this way isn’t encouraged either.