The widening national-pride gap between D's and R's

Wasn’t sure which forum to put this in - could have been in GD, MPSIMS or Elections as well:

There is now a huge yawning gap in self-identified national pride between Democrats and Republicans (not that national pride is necessarily a good thing in and of itself.) Only 22 percent of Democrats identified as being ‘extremely proud’ to be American, versus 76 percent of Republicans.

No particular opinion to show here, just thought it was interesting. The main factors are probably Trump, the fact that Democrats have long had more of a ‘citizen-of-the-world’ attitude than Republicans, and how patriotism and nationalism has come to be associated with Trumpism.

My opinion is that there are reasons to be proud, and reasons to not be proud. Among the former are our generally effective rule of law and our system of generally democratic government which has lasted for, what, 230 years or so?

The reasons not to be proud are our use/wasting of resources as if there’s no tomorrow, various actions military and civil that violated the lives and rights of people mostly of other countries (or natives to this one) and/or mostly of color, and the fact that no-one seems to recognize how fortunate this country has been in the wealth contained in our natural resources, which seems to result in a general attitude of “we’ve got ours, Jack, and too bad for you.”

Interestingly, although I am a baby boomer and the education I was exposed to as a child was mostly on the order of “USA! USA!”, I do remember the last point being made in my history classes more than once.

For the record, I’m neither a D nor an R, more of an I who tries to remain objective.

It’s hard to be proud of a nation that would elect Trump. End of story.

I hope to regain some pride after November of 2020.

President Trump’s election and administration may, at least in part, explain why the gap is widening (and really, Republicans are well within their historical range, it’s the dems that are plumbing the depths of whatever-the-opposite-of-national-pride-is), but the gap was already there way before President Trump. More interesting I think, are the reasons for feeling proud of our country. The Gallup poll asked about quite a few, and here are the responses. “American scientific achievements” and “the U.S. military” rank high. “The American political system” ranks quite low.

People who can see how far we’ve come but can also see the many ways in which we can and must become better in order to form a more perfect union will naturally understand the question differently from jingos. Without a definition of pride, this doesn’t say much.

It’s not so much that Democrats are less proud than Republicans. It is what specifically the Republicans are proud of that the Democrats just can’t get on board with.

My local news reported on this story and said Texas overall has some of the least people proud of the US period, so I wonder how much this is based on the fact if you’re a Democrat who was a recent immigrant, odds are you really don’t have a reason to be proud of the US today.

I attribute the gap to the fundamental difference that R’s are more responsive to authoritarian signals than the D’s. Add in that the current administration tickles the authoritarian funny bone more than in the past, and that explains the widening gap.

Add the third factor that the “winners” would naturally be more proud than the “losers”, loosely speaking. Watch what happens if a D wins the White House next, it would be easy to predict that the national-pride gap would move in the other direction.

My country, right the wrongs!

I don’t think that this is as much of a factor as you seem to. All throughout the obama administration, Republicans were still more proud of our country than dems.

Then why the deep need to “Make America Great Again!!”?

The two things aren’t contradictory. You can be proud of something and yet recognize that it is in major need of improvement.
By sports analogy, it’s possible for a Cowboys fan to be proud of his team having won 5 Super Bowls in the past, yet also recognize that his team’s glory days are long past and that they need drastic improvement if they ever want to win another Super Bowl any time soon.

Yeah, but the gap movement would change.

Maybe it’s a matter of terminology? Maybe the emotions aren’t different, but people on the right phrase it as ‘of course we’re proud of America! We just need to stop messing up x!’ while people on the left phrase it as ‘we keep messing up x, we ought to be ashamed of that part, we’ll be proud when we’ve fixed it’? (They may be talking about different x’s, of course. What some people think is a fix is what some other people think is a problem.)

Or maybe people on the right think of the things they’re not proud of as not really being part of the USA, but somehow outside it even if the USA is doing them; while people on the left are more likely to think of the things they’re not proud of as being nevertheless an actual part of the society?

Yeah, but “pride” to the right means “act like I’ve personally accomplished something great simply by being born here” and “If you don’t think this country is perfect, get the hell out.”

to me, taking pride in something should be reserved for having done something positive or beneficial, not for simply existing or doing nothing more than being a flag-waving loudmouth.

Pointed out during the CNN commentary on today’s “Salute to America”: Trump’s speech painted a picture of an America that has always been great so there’s no need to make America great again.

What was left unsaid: MAGA is simply a dog whistle for those who believe that America stopped being great when a person of color had the temerity to be elected President.

I think it’s mostly branding. It’s part of the Republican “brand” right now to claim to be “proud” of America. I know many conservative older folks who go on and on about how the country has gone down the toilet, but they still insist they’re proud of the country in separate conversations (and polls like this, I’m sure).

So I think it’s more a difference of opinion in what it means to be “proud” of the country, rather than any differences in patriotism or anything like that. I’ve known open white supremacists who insisted they were patriots and proud of America. But their version of patriotism and pride were very, very different from mine.

Here we go again.

Why I Love America by Ann Hedonia

“We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable; that all men are created equal and independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable, among which are the preservation of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

Those were some radical sentiments for their time. The founders of our country came out of a time where it was believed that your place in society and the world was the divine manifestation of God’s will and plan and it was not your place to try and change it. It was believed that your husband, your king, the lord of your manor was inherently better than you and that this hierarchy needed to be accepted. The idea of pursuit of happiness was also radical - the prevailing idea was that your life was the property of your king and your God. Personal happiness had no place in the equation.

But our forefathers changed that. Our country was built on an idea, not a race, religion or ethnicity.

The Declaration of Independence is more aspiration than declaration. It took us ,as a country, time to implement this idea. And it’s a continuing process.

We fought a war over slavery, and our ideals triumphed over race, culture and heritage.

It was still a slow process, but we continued

We changed the country’s attitude towards war. We fought against the mass slaughter of unwilling soldiers in Vietnam. We still have war, but this country no longer has tolerance for the kind of casualties we saw in Vietnam. And all military service is now elective.

We also took part in eliminating the legalized racism that ran directly counter to the Declaration of Independence and hampered so many of our citizens in their pursuit of happiness.

We took further steps towards achieving these ideals by making marriage legally available to all couples.

We still aren’t there yet. But we’re getting there. And I’m proud to be part of it.

Because asking people how much they love their country is like asking men how much they love their wives. It’s, at best, a meaningless question because what counts is not how much you profess to love, but how you express that love.

And frankly, a lot of “patriots” are like the guys that love their wives so much that they would rather kill them then see them with another man. They embrace anti-governmental hierarchical ideals that run directly counter to the vision set forth in the Declaration of Independence. These “patriots” are exactly like the guys that project a fantasy image onto an exceptional but not perfect (because she’s real) woman and then kill her because she doesn’t live up to their fantasy.

Yes, I love my country. I love my country the way a parent loves their child. A good loving parent doesn’t insist that their child can do no wrong. A good loving parent doesn’t believe her child if he tells her that everyone in the school system and police department is out to get them. A good and loving parent doesn’t try to make her child’s misbehavior a societal norm

Like a good parent, I have a vision of what ai want my country to be in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years. That vision is laid out in our founding documents. And I want to help guide my country towards achieving that vision in whatever small way I can.

Because I love my country.