“if there is probable cause to believe that the person was using a firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages or controlled substances or that the person is lawfully arrested for any offense allegedly committed while he or she was using a firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages or controlled substances.”
No-one seemed to think Zimmerman was under the influence.
And what evidence do you have that “no one thought he was drunk” we are all going from rumor here.
As I said, he had a history of drunken domestic violence and violence against police, and a history of court appointed anger management.
Had they taken photos of his wounds it would probably have helped his case too.
That is why it smells, bad evidence collection of a person with a violent past who was a judges son.
I don’t think falls perfectly on the pro-gun, anti-gun divide.
Or the race or party divides, though there definitely is a relationship.
Fundamentally, I think if you trust in institutions, particularly law enforcement and the judicial system, then you will not be outraged by this case. If you hold a more cynical view, then you will be distrustful about this case from the very beginning.
Everything may be going by the book in this case, but it certainly seems the system moves a bit more quickly when it comes to other people. This is a cynical view, yes. If Martin had shot Zimmerman, would he be at home right now, eating Skittles and sexting his girlfriend? Would the cogs of the justice system have thrown up their hands in futility about the impossibility of convicting him? Even with SYG in play, I don’t think so. SYG would have been brought up by Martin’s lawyer later, as a defense in court, but I don’t think Martin would have been granted immunity from immediate arrest. Even if that’s what the law grants.
The Optimist, who either has never seen shit go down or has found a way justify it using the Fair World Hypothesis, never inverts the picture in matters like this one. So of course they are going to take what they are told by the authorities at face value. The Cynic, however, doesn’t. What the Optimist calls “jumping to hasty conclusions”, the Cynic sees as predicting the outcome based on past events and “common sense”. Both ways of thinking are prone to errors, don’t get me wrong.
It’s plain to me why conservatives are more likely not to be as outraged. They generally have more trust in institutions. They are more likely to embrace the Fair World Hypothesis too. See, Martin was just asking for trouble because he was wearing a hoodie and walking too slowly. If he hadn’t been doing those things, he would have never gotten his drug-addled self killed. And if he had just answered Mr. Zimmerman’s question instead of being pissed-off about being followed, then he would still be alive. Fair World believers always believe the victim shares in the responsibility for whatever happens to them. Don’t have health insurance? You should have worked harder in school so that you could have gotten a better job. And don’t complain about your low pay. No one is underpaid in this wonderful free market. The market can always be trusted to make fair decisions. Just like the justice system.
Keep on reading two more numbers down:
So, it is irrelevant if Zimmerman was drunk off of his ass. It still hinges on the self-defense claim.
ETA:
Further,
So you only count the time the gun touched Zimmerman’s hand, not the walk from his car.
It’s all about the guns. Gun nuts are worried shitless that if this turns out to be a case where a private citizen carries a gun and kills someone for no reason, then it will threaten their “right” to carry a gun. Rather then let this remain as an example of needless gun violence, they want to invent a scenario where the shooting was justified, hence the attacks on Martin’s character and the attempts to blame him for his own death. Remember all the debates on concealed weapons? The right wing orthodoxy was “Don’t worry! People who carry guns would NEVER shoot them for no reason.” So much for that theory- unless they can get Martin to be the aggressor and Zimmerman to be the innocent victim.
FWIW, I’m a pro-gun advocate and I’m in no way concerned about the implications this incident may have on gun laws. But please, more stereotypes.
on a bit of a different line, has anyone else noted the pictures used to represent Zimmerman and Martin in the press? Martin seems to be a cute 12 year old and Zimmerman a drunk/drugged loon . I have seen a few others out there and Zimmerman is a normal looking guy and Martin looks a lot more like a grown man. I think we are being manipulated again. I have to say for clarity I am a wait and see kinda guy and a gun owner who has never shot anyone and hopes I never do, I presume(probably wrongly) that most CCers do too any thoughts
You are correct.
Martin could be a middle-aged tattooed white biker, does that justify chasing someone down int the dark and shooting them because you have a “hunch” they did something bad?
How about they are represented as they actually are?
Pray tell, what “is he” and how does it relate?
You won’t agree that the pictures being used are to heighten the emotionalism of the case?
Non sequitur, and no, I expect mothers to think highly of their kids, as it is the “best possible environment for kids”
So please answer what “is he” that makes his life less valuable.
Who he? He who?
Well, sorry, i don’t know what “is he” is referring to. The posters point is that we are being manipulated by the photos which are used. I think he has a valid point. You don’t?
DrDeth, Travon Martin
STill dont’ get “is he”. Can you respond to what I actually write?
WTF? 
How about complete sentences?
[QUOTE=hoopified]
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Martin could be a middle-aged tattooed white biker, does that justify chasing someone down int the dark and shooting them because you have a “hunch” they did something bad?
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How about they are represented as they actually are?
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I am responding directly to what you write.
Who is Travon, and why is his life is less valuable if he isn’t a cute 12 year old.
It’s true that Martin no longer looked like that cute kid at the time he was shot. Shame on his family for using a picture of him that they liked instead of holding themselves to the highest standards of journalistic accuracy. Once you realize he was a few years older and somewhat taller, might’ve worn a grill in one picture, and had a tattoo on his arm that nobody could’ve seen through his sweatshirt anyway, it makes sense that George Zimmerman found him suspicious for no concrete reason, followed him, and wound up shooting him dead and then possibly made up a story to justify his actions.