Bullshit.
Well, people tend to react badly when they’re being called rapists and whores. Funny, that.
ETA: And I still don’t get how a silent, physical, non-invasive offer is more, let alone significantly more, intimidating than asking a question out loud, which is more likely to get the attention, and thus reaction, of others around you.
Seriously, imagine yourself going into the deepest, most echo-y echo chamber of so called “social justice warriors” and make this argument. Do you seriously think they’re more likely to applaud and agree, or accuse you of being a parody troll?
I totally agree. Thankfully, society has developed a very quick gesture that serves as a request for permission for a handshake – it’s called the handshake offer. When a person puts forward their hand (without forcing contact), that is requesting permission for a handshake. This request can be denied. If someone forces it, they are a jerk. But just a request is a request, which is what you are asking for.
So I do what should solve this problem for everyone – I do the shorthand request gesture that doesn’t offend or insult any woman I’ve heard from. A verbal request would insult/offend many women, so I don’t do that.
I don’t want to offend or discomfit women, so I’m very happy that society has developed this shorthand handshake-permission gesture.
This. And she can politely decline.
And if a man does this, he doesn’t offend feminists who would like their college to treat them the same as they treat all other colleagues in public.
ZPG, cultural sensitivity runs both ways. You live in a culture where it is normal and common for strangers to shake hands. It is unfair of you to judge people poorly for behavior because you grossly misunderstand it.
See, this is a perfect example of your grossly misunderstanding a common communication and reacting inappropriately to it. A proffered hand is not intimidating, unless you choose to be intimidated. I have politely turned down handshakes. I have seen others politely decline. It is quite easy, and so long as you say why you are declining (“i don’t shake hands”, “i have pink eye and don’t want to share”, “I’m sorry, i have a painful rash”) no offense will be taken.
He’s a handshaker? I’ve always suspected that about him.
Maybe ZPG Zealot doesn’t know how to turn down a hand shake request. Here’s how it’s done:
- Don’t shake the offered hand.
- (optional) Say “I don’t shake hands”.
Nice example of why it’s taking longer than we thought.
Whenever she does this, the guy supposedly gets all huffy. :rolleyes:
This is the problem, isn’t it? “I do not accept your offer to rape me,” is not a particularly polite way of declining a handshake.
Imagine how I felt when a female doctor told me to turn my head and cough. Her hands were cold and the guys shriviled up like a couple of prunes. She smiled politely. I blushed and swore to never try out for football again. I never understood that it was a chance for the girls to get revenge against the guys. I want to hate her for it but i enjoy her early morning visits in my dreams. If only the other women who had me by the balls were so gentle. :eek::eek:
This sounds very rational, and kind. And if this was all you’d posted, I’d be applauding.
But I’ve read almost everything you’ve written on this board, and though you are, umm, vigilant about your own dislikes, nowhere have I noticed you caring about anyone else’s feelings.
The problem is that she believes that women who shake hands are whores. So she can’t just accept some reasonable solution for refusing a handshake. It’s not just that offering to shake her hand is rape. Hands are being shaken by disgusting, slutty women. So she’s trying to find a way to put the question into your head so that you will start avoiding shaking hands with women. Because it’s wrong to shake hands with women.
She’s not content not to shake hands. She wants to control whether I shake hands, as well.
Then those guys are jerks.
Well, my take on it is ZPG has some very deep-seated issues regarding being touched by men, and I’m not going to speculate where they arose.
However, in a form of denial or whatever, has intellectually processed those issues as a societal problem, and not one that is pretty unique to her (given the responses on this board alone, and I imagine throughout most societies in the world).
As long as she perceives the problem to be outside of her and not one of her own neuroses, she doesn’t really need to dwell upon it too much…and can throw names like rapist and whore around willy-nilly, retreating to spurious ‘cultural’ reasons as needed.
It’s pretty clear that ZPG is a very disturbed individual, and I’m going to bow out of this thread now because one cannot argue rationally with someone who is so seriously damaged.
kam
You really think she smiles and politely says “I don’t shake hands, sorry” to the probable rapist who just shamed her as a prostitute in front of everyone else in the room?
Well, of course, you don’t HAVE to give any reason. But if you don’t offer a reason, the other person will quite reasonably assume that you hold some grudge against him. Thus, it is more polite to explain “it’s not you, it’s me.”
Of course, if she thinks it IS him, I see her problem. Except, of course, it is her, she is simply refusing to understand the common language “spoken” in the US
Yes, of course.
Actually, it was originally “nice bustle,” but that was seen as TOO gay. Grabass is okay if you hide it under the veneer of sports.
That’s my issue with her. In the other thread she was suggesting that we should have a sexually segregated society- instead of acknowledging that maybe her issue is her own.
Except that (2) is not optional. In fact, it needs to be prefaced by “Sorry” or “Excuse me” or some other conciliatory phrase.
I’ll let Miss Manners explain why:
That said, I actually agree that the handshake ideally ought to be replaced in American etiquette with some other egalitarian gesture of mutual respect that doesn’t involve actual touching of another person.
I personally am fine with handshakes, but I can see how they’re unnecessarily problematic in some respects. Disease transmission, immunity problems, and diverse cultural backgrounds are all good reasons why it would be better to have a standard gesture of greeting that doesn’t involve rubbing our dirty paws on those of other people.
However, for the present it happens that the handshake is our standard gesture of greeting, and abstaining from it without explanation conventionally signals deliberate insult. So refusing to shake hands without offering at least a routine and token acknowledgement and apology for the refusal is rude.