Theists: Why do you believe in your religion?

Great Debates
21

What if Jesus was the son of God, but so was Hercules? What if you are, too? Maybe God spoke to Muhammad and Jesus and me and the waitress at Denny’s.

I don’t actually believe a physical place called hell exists; I think “hell” is a psychological construct we make for ourselves. But I think the concept of hell is an important tool that some people need to keep themselves doing what they want to do, and not behave in ways they find reprehensible. Of course, it’s also used to control other people, and I think that’s bad.

I think it’s entirely possible that “God wants” (whatever that means) some people to get baptized and take Communion. I think It wants some people to slaughter chickens in sacrifice. I think that It wants some people to drum and dance ecstatically. I think, ultimately, what It wants (and I think this because It’s told me, although whether It is an external being or a part of my brain or an energy construct created by masses of humans, I’m not sure) is all of us to be closer to It by making connections between ourselves and everything else. How you do that is religion or spirituality, and so therefore doesn’t work the same way for everyone, any more than [warning: flawed analogy ahead!] algebra has to be done the same way by everyone. The final goal may be the same, but you can use the Slope-Intercept Form or the Two-Point Form and still get the graph of the line correct.

I think that the "All"s and "Every"s and "No other way"s are a human construct enacted for social control, not God’s words.

22

One of the first things that attracted me to the Baha’i Faith was the belief that God is multi-faceted, and all the religions are right, not just mine. I tried on lots of different kinds of Christianity, and just could not get past the “This Is Right and Everything Else is Wrong” message there. Also, the Baha’i belief that “if science and religion disagree, it’s because there’s something we don’t understand yet”. I liked that. The equality of men and women, racial equality, the emphasis on education, the emphasis on independent investigation of the truth. All of those things drew me.

Like WhyNot, I feel better in general, when I am following the tenets of my faith.

I do not believe my religion is the Right One, but I believe it is the right one for me.

I came to this conclusion after some months of studying it, and an illness that put me very close to death, during which I prayed, not for God to spare my life, but to show me if being Baha’i was the right thing for me. About two weeks after getting out of the hospital, I woke up one morning, and simply didn’t wonder any more. The answer was just there for me. I called my friend Sue that night (the woman who introduced me to the faith) and told her “I want to be Baha’i”. I didn’t know when I placed the call, but it was actually the eve of the Ascension of Baha’u’llah (the Prophet/Founder of the faith) and she told me that, and offered to pick me up at 3AM and take me to the Celebration of the Ascension, where I could sign my declaration card. I did. I’ve never regretted it.

I cannot comprehend people who believe that God is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. and still cannot grok that He is big enough for many Truths.

23

Then anyone who believes that Hercules was not the son of God is wrong.

24

Conversely, the idea that religion is an absolute (or factual claim, as you phrase it) is so alien to me as to be repulsive. I do love my faith, but it pains me greatly that in this country and others, it has deviated so greatly from what I feel was its true aim: inner peace, acceptance, charity, kindness. I don’t think of religion (or the lack thereof) in the terms you outline, so it’s hard for me to relate to.

I tell this story a lot when discussing my faith: when I was nine, I went to a church and saw my family’s longtime hairdresser standing at the back of the church when there were pews available. I waved him over and he just smiled at me and nodded in the negative. When I insisted, my aunt stayed my hand. I asked her why he wouldn’t come sit with us and she said “Because he’s gay, and he doesn’t feel too comfortable here.” I asked her why he wouldn’t feel worthy, if he was in God’s house, and she said that of course God loved him, but that was for him to work out with God and I shouldn’t try to insert myself when no one had asked for me, because I was interfering and he would work it out on his own. I was never once told he was doing something bad or wrong, or that he would be condemned to hell or anything like that. That taught me that it was not my place to judge, and that if I was to be a Christian, I put the other person first.

When my cousin came out years later, my house and my aunt’s house were the only two places he could go where he didn’t feel judged. I remember how hard it was for him, how confused and horrid he felt and I would never do that to anyone if I could help it. As long as you’re a good person, I don’t care what faith or lifestyle you suscribe to. I really don’t mean to sound like a bleeding heart. :rolleyes: I swear I’m a bitch on wheels IRL.

25

I dont’ buy into the whole package: the Bible, weekly church attendance and tithing. My faith (trust, not belief) is pretty small, but i think pretty strong. I was in a really difficult financial period of my life roughly from 2005 to 2007, and had months where I had two and three mortgages to pay, including my residence. There were three months during that period where I had four mortgages, IIRC, three were for the same house, but were demanded all at once before it went into foreclosure.

Each month as d-day approached I sized up the situation and, with a lot of stress overwhelming me, put my thumb against my forehead and “prayed” for help. Every time it happened something came up and I had some way to make the money. While I had a day job as a software engineer, i had been doing construction since 2002, and had lots of opportunities to make good money on the side.

So it got to where i’d look at the situation and wonder how it was going to work out this time. But it always seemed to work out.

So i don’t know if it’s a benevolent god, the devil or what. But something seemed to help me consistently through that period. It’s not that Jesus rang the doorbell with a briefcase full of money; I still had to look at the opportunity that arose, but it seemed to always be exactly what I needed.

It might just be that I created my own luck. But I don’t think so.

26

Even in the most fundamentalist regimes, a gay man (or woman) should not be treated any differently than any other sexual “sinner”. I think traditional churches are becoming fossils for this very reason.

27

Sure, but how would any of us know?

28

How do we know anything about reality? We look for evidence. If there’s no evidence that Hercules was the son of God, there’s no reason to believe Hercules was the son of God.

29

He has proven Himself truthful to me - so I believe His Word, a God I have total confidence entrusting my eternal life to. He has also proved other gods false as they package slavery as freedom, oppressing you in a way that fools you into thanking them. Jesus shines the light of truth on these false gods to reveal who they really are.

30

The next time that I am feeling that the Straight Dope has become a waste of time, I will return to this thread. For me it is still waters where my soul is restored.

Little Plastic Ninja, count this as one of the times that your words were milk and honey to a fellow Doper.

31

I had a collection of experiences that struck me (personally, you understand) as profoundly demonstrating the presence of God.

Others quickly leapt in and funnelled me into a fairly fundamentalist flavour of Christianity (or at least pretty much as fundie as it gets here in the UK, which is still a pretty pale, wannabe imitation of the fundies you have there in America). And I tried very hard to fit into it.

It took me quite a few years to escape from that prison, but the original stuff remains, and is still quite compelling to me. I would not expect it to seem particularly significant to anyone else, if I tried to describe it to them.

32

Meant to add: I’m answering the question in the thread title. I don’t really have an answer for the (presumptuous?) questions in the body of the OP.

33

If you publish, I’d buy a copy. If you don’t get that far, I’d still be interested in buying a digitial version.

Re the OP, I was raised a Roman Catholic but I started having doubts in my early teens and it all fell apart for me, largely because I couldn’t supply a satisfactory answer to this very question. Atheist now.

34

People who fall under this category just have to. That’s similar to asking people why their past is more important to them than the sibling who shared it with them. Religion affects people in different ways from one to another.
It’s molded or provided answers to them, for who and how they’ve become. Someone who believes in something so strongly, or invested everything they’ve had into it, can’t be asked to be “open” to being wrong. There’s more on the line than pride or possessions when following a religion here…it’s their eternal soul or what they get to come back as in the next life.
Religion, or beliefs gives a sense of purpose or provides answers cause no one wants to be a spark in the gravel, no matter how much of an atheist one claims to be.** (IMHO, anyone who claims to be atheist or denies an existence to or in a creator/god is a liar. If someone truly believed this to be so, than why obey to anyone? What would be the point of going on? And why care whether anyone else goes on or not? Fear of pain can’t possibly be a motivator no more than temporary joy on earth? To me, anyone absolutely godless or oblivious to something greater than ones self is a dangerous person.)**

It doesn’t bother me that someone feels that their belief is the right one. It’s only when it’s forced upon me, that is when I have an issue with it. I do understand that trying to force or disprove a belief is putting someones whole integrity in question, which I believe no one has that right.

I was born a Baptist, following my father and my mother is a Buddhist. All of my friends come from various religious back rounds. Because I have been surrounded with so many different religions…I became lost in my own beliefs. No matter what my friends and acquaintances believe in, one thing stands as a fact. These are all good people.

I guess I wasn’t as strong as those around me to stand firm to my own beliefs, so I became agnostic. My wife is Catholic, as well as her family (you can imagine where I stand with them)

Her family make me ask this very same question every time I see them. What makes them so right?

Now, I feel the greatest burden that I have never foreseen. My wife has expressed doubts in Catholicism that I’ve never seen before in the years that we have been together. She stopped going to church so that it would not burden me and to avoid ridicule for not attending often by the Priest and her family, no mass, no nothing. That makes me feel worse then ever. One would say I’ve become the devil’s advocate.

35

Dopers, the responses from the religious in this thread are mind-boggingley
skipping the point. Most of the believers are saying “it’s MY faith, the way I want it.”
This is the definition of non-religious or non-faithful.

Religion, like any club or contract has requirements. If all aren’t followed,
that contract, club or faith membership is null and void.

Example: I buy a movie ticket. When the stub is ripped, I have now agreed that I
will follow all the rules that the movie theater expects of its patrons,
or I will be showed out, no refund. Let’s say I think, “Well, I can wait to smoke,
but I’m putting my feet up wherever the hell I please while I watch this flick.”
Usher comes, escorted by manager, and I am shown the door.

I started out Roman Catholic (atheist now, since 15 yo). According to the rules
and regulations from the vatican, the bible and the jesus teachings, I’m only a RC
if I follow ALL the rules. Hence, a moderate Roman Catholic who thinks gay is AOK,
is absolutely NOT a Roman Catholic, just a sinner.

It’s all or nothing, believers. Except for kanicbird. Quote:
“The Lord Jesus is the only one who offers unconditional Love - Love demonstrated by Him taking my punishment, irrevocable salvation no matter what we do, His own Spirit living in us, His very name He gives us (we get to use God’s own name and that comes with power), a promise never to leave us AND, for me personally has shown and proven beyond my satisfaction that He has the power to keep all His promises.”

This is the best religious answer because of its vagueness, exactly what a true believer should say… except in this forum, because you didn’t answer the question, KBird.
( I mean absolutely no offense.)
Why is jesus taking your punishment of original sin a reason you are Christian?
Why do we get salvation no matter what we do? Are you Christian because you get salvation no matter what you do?

“Dissapointed!”

36

Locrian, I’d like to take this opportunity to welcome you to the 21st century. :wink: There’s a theory Alistair Crowley writes about which identifies and labels the waves of religious change throughout human history as distinct Aeons marked by humanity’s understanding of the sun; your definition of religion is distinctly Second Aeon, while we’re now in the Third, where the sun is known to be only one of many stars, and likewise one’s person faith only one of many faiths. I’m not sure he’s completely correct, but it’s an interesting observation.

Yes, what you write has been historically true, and it’s possible one could consider that language hasn’t yet evolved quite enough and we’re using “religion” in the wrong way. In the past few decades “spirituality” has been used instead, but many of us feel that “spirituality” has been co-opted by whack-jobs and corporate new-ageiness.

I, at any rate, chose to interpret the OP as asking why our Faith is what it is - why we believe in the God that we do and/or the practices that further our connection with The Divine. I tend to expand the definition of “religion” a lot in my never-ending quest to remind people on this board that there are more than three flavors of Divine study.

37

FTR, I think my religion is the right one for me, and it’s not up to me to decide for anyone else.

I think religion and spirituality is a personal internal journey. People are complex and a lot of emotions and variations in personality come into play. People choose a vehicle that feels right for them and they’ll make their journey in that vehicle until they no longer want or need it.

I wish people weren’t so dogmatic but that’s a fact of life. If we accepted that our own beliefs are a work in progress and may be wrong, we’d get along better and probably grow faster. In general, we’re just not that mature yet.

38

But it’s not that hard, really. Schroedinger’s cat is either alive or dead but we don’t know which. Just because something is unprovable doesn’t mean it is untrue. The difference is that a believer believes in spite of a lack of proof, while a disbeliever disbelieves becasue of a lack of proof. Neither has any more evidence of the ultimate “truth” – the unprovable “fact” – than the other does.

A person who qualifies that their religion or faith is “right for me” is saying, in effect, either (a) “I might be wrong about it” or (b) “I don’t want to get into an argument about it.” The fact is, for many involved in their own spiritual development, path, or obligations, how an outsider might view their faith is not terribly relevant. At the risk of sounding self-involved, at the end of the day I don’t really care what people think about my faith or how I exercise it. I find people like Locrian who want to tell me what I must believe or who presume to pronounce the rules of my faith (or of anyone’s) to be boring, frankly. Boring because irrelevant. Explaining my faith in terms of it being “right for me” is a way of underscoring that at the end of the day I probably don’t give a shit what you (general “you”) think about it. Really.

I am a Christian. That doesn’t mean that I believe all other religions are “wrong”, all other holy books are “wrong,” or only my Lord spoke to or on behalf of God. It means that given the circumstances of my upbringing and my culture, after conscious study of other belief systems and much prayer, I have decided that Christianity is MY spiritual path. I obviously think it’s better than many others or I would not have embraced it, but I’m not in a position to tell others what they must think or believe, especially when I find so exasperating attempts to inform me what I must think or believe.

I am not a Defender of the Faith. I am a practitioner. I resist most conversations where I am expected to act as a Defender, as my experience has shown them to be unfruitful and boring. I would assert they are factually unfruitful and boring, but since I cannot prove that, I will qualify that they are unfruitful and boring to me.

39

At a time of my life I was dieing in my sin, I could not bear it and had no way out. Jesus offered to take that consequence of my sin for me and restore me to life, and in all that He did not demand that I accept Him, it was a free will decision on my part. This is the God I want. He had no reason to help me, I righteously was getting what I deserved, but He did it because He Loves me, and after that waited patiently if I would accept Him.

Now you may be able to get some lesser god to remove a nasty circumstance, but to get God Himself to step in and take my punishment Himself really shows how deep is His Love.

It’s a promise of God, actually IMHO the strongest single promise in the Bible:

This should be enough in itself, but Jesus goes one step further:

We get it as a free gift, there is nothing we can do to earn it, and there is nothing we can do to lose it. So to answer your question we get it because God wants to give it to us.

I believe in Jesus as Lord because He has proven Himself worthy.

40

Can I get an Amen! Thanks for expressing this Jodi. May I ask if this is a common attitude you find among your Christian friends and/or whatever church you attend?
We should be able to allow people whatever spiritual or non spiritual vehicle they prefer and judge them as a person by their actions .
**
Strinka
** yes there are facts involved that may or may not be true. All people operate that way in their day to day life to various degrees. It’s not necessary to know if all the details of one’s religion is true in order to go forward and use it as a vehicle for personal growth or social interaction. It’s perfectly normal to operate on what we believe to be true and to accept traditions and rituals of a religion that just “feels” right. It’s often more about what we get emotionally than whether everything can be proven factually.
IMO that’s what “it works for me” means. Each person decides what is comforting, or encouraging, or meaningful, for them, and chooses a path. Sometimes people grow to a point where it’s time to change vehicles. Sometimes not.
**
Locrian** You’re mistaken. It’s not all or nothing.