It’s been way to long since anyone asked me if I’d felt the warmth of the love of Jesus. So, for all you people out there who are into converting heathens, here I am. Save my soul…
Oh, and I’m not bothered what religion… 
I’d almost categorize this as a troll, but I guess GD is the right place for it. And hey, it’s a quasi excuse to post a Celsus quote I ran into in reading up on some stuff he wrote.
“Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teaching. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side.” – Celsus
Ok, he wasn’t a big fan…
But hey, more power to you. If being converted on a message board is what entertains you, this is, again, probably the best place for it…
Ask yourself whether or not you need another complete layer of psuedo-reality cloaking your every movement and decision? If you are mentally incompotent, go right ahead and have someone else tell you everything to do. If you are not, give yourself a chance to find the world on your own terms. If you find it wanting. fine, pursue religion. You might be suprised, however.
This universe is of such wonder as to stun the mind and soul into a quietude of solemn degree. Give this world a chance before you chase after an imaginary afterworld.
My friend Eric said the other day that, “Man makes God in his own image.” I have begun to agree with him more and more as I deal with the religious bigotry and conceit that I run into on these boards.
Please find a book titled, “Zen Flesh, Zen Bones”, by Paul Repps. It is an ancient cosmic joke book that will open your mind without demanding eternal allegience to anything more than reason.
It’s an Einstein qoute that I like the best :
“If God did not exist, then it would be necessary for man to invent him…”
To be honest, I’m more interested in the actual attmept at conversion than in becoming a religious type. I’m really only after a conversation with someone who has cast-iron beliefs. I find such people amusing and fascinating in equal measures. Call it a Troll if you will, but I want to give it a go…
the quote.
either attributed, to einstein, or perhaps he quoted voltaire.
Einstein had some pretty cool pantheistic quotes of his own, though.
I stand corrected. That’s the trouble with quotes. All the best ones are already taken…
Man making God in his own image…
For further information, just read C.S. Lewis’, “Mere Christianity.” It is one of the few cogent discussions about the fabric of the Christian religion.
If you believe that all mankind is of an evil nature, this book will help to justify it.
Try to remember Joachim, that I am a **“Devout Agnostic”
**. If you think that people are of a benevolent nature, please read “Zen Flesh, Zen Bones”.
I’ve read “Mere Christianity”, and it was a book I had to force myself to finish. I found I had to unclench my fists periodically to get the blood flowing again.
Actually, I’m more into the whole fate idea than anything else. I guess it could be a throw-back from my ancient history studies, but I like the idea of a supreme power you can’t double-guess, and whose motives and means are so far above our bredth of perception that they deny description, let alone comprension, or manipulation. I guess I have a coloured view of christianity from all those accounts of Crusader massacres and the like, and from the fact that in a war God is often on all sides at once.
I suppose I’d like to be part of a religion that doesn’t need a church structure. That’d be nice. Reckon I’ll just make my own up
I'd still like someone to try and convert me, though, just for the fun of it.
And do you believe people are benevolent in nature, or evil? I'd like to think they can be whichever they choose - Man certainly has virtually limitless capacity for either.Just stick around for a while.
They come every month or so with names such as FriendofGod. What happens to them varies. Some, like the original proselytizer ARG220, grew up (hopefully with help from this place) and became less pious and overbearing. Some go to save puppies and don’t return. A bunch just do hit-and-run witnessing and you can find threads started in days gone by with original posters with 1 or 2 posts in them. Most stick around for a while and then depart, either with a grand exit or under the cover of night.
What you ask for is akin to asking someone about how nice it would be to see a sunrise:
It always happens, it will always happen, pull up a seat and enjoy the view; It won’t be long…
Yer pal,
Satan - Commissioner, The Teeming Minions
*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Five months, six days, 12 hours, 15 minutes and 51 seconds.
6380 cigarettes not smoked, saving $797.55.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 3 weeks, 1 day, 3 hours, 40 minutes.
*“I’m a big Genesis fan.”-David B. (Amen, brother!) **
Maybe you should ask for someone to come along and “prove” creation.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zenster *
Ask yourself whether or not you need another complete layer of psuedo-reality cloaking your every movement and decision?
As opposed to the “true reality” you’re about to reveal to us, you mean?
That’s not what he asked for. Religion is about discovering that you have free will, but also that you have responsibilities, rather than being a meaningless part of nothingness and therefore never taking responsibility for yourself.
All hail Discordia! Hail Eric!
What?! Now you’re advocating Organised Literature? No! Write all the books you read yourself! Otherwise you’re just following the writings of others.
Back to Joachim Pieper. I don’t think anyone can convert you; religion is too personal. It’s like asking “Can someone make me like rhubarb please?” I think you’ve got to sort it out for yourself.
Oh, I suppose rhubarb is an extreme example, since no one really likes rhubarb. I mean, you’d have to be one sick twisted individual to even think about liking it…
Before we attempt it you’ll have to do a couple of things for us:
-
Agree with us that all epistemology is tautological.
-
Convince us that you exist so that we are not wasting out time.
Otherwise, you’re on your own.
(MMPFTM!!!.. I’ve been waiting to do this!.. :D)
Sorry. You can’t be saved unless you have the Holy Spirit, and you can’t have that until you keep Jesus’s teachings, but you can’t know what he meant by what he taught unless you have the Holy Spirit in the first place.
Good luck!
Troll.
Yer pal,
Satan - Commissioner, The Teeming Minions
*I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Five months, six days, 15 hours, 35 minutes and 42 seconds.
6385 cigarettes not smoked, saving $798.25.
Extra life with Drain Bead: 3 weeks, 1 day, 4 hours, 5 minutes.
*“I’m a big Genesis fan.”-David B. (Amen, brother!) **
Quote edited for brevity
If “Mere Christianity” didn’t get you to race on down to the revival tent, then I’d say that your fairly immune to conversion. I too was put off by Lewis’ presumption that man’s nature is inherently evil. Such tripe is about as convincing as “Malevolent Universe” theories. I do give him credit for being the first author I’ve ever read to clearly define the concept of “The Holy Ghost”.
Please visit my posting at this thread for a quick treatise on fate:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=38254
If you’re looking for a religion without a “church structure”, again, try Zen, it is most interesting and focuses upon “The Charismatic Imperfection of Man”. This being one of the few ways I have ever seen the human condition properly characterized.
As to man’s capacity for evil. That is a learned response. How many vicious babies do you see being born?
Why is it a troll to point out a flaw in a belief system?
I see plenty of vicious babies. As soon as they develop motor skills, they grab at things that aren’t theirs and don’t let go. As soon as they figure out they can bite, they rip into human flesh when they don’t get their way. They don’t share, they don’t respect each other, they don’t listen to authority, and the unhappier they are, the louder they get. Children must be taught manners, they must be assimilated into their respective cultures; otherwise they end up like Charles Manson in prison with no respect for other people.
I think anybody that has worked extensively around children has seen that they aren’t the innocent little angels philosophers like Voltaire make them out to be. My experience has taught me that humans are for the most part inherently selfish, internally wicked, and only a personal effort to change this behavior can make a decent one.
Then again, there are plenty of people that haven’t been “washed in the blood” that are far less depraved than some of the Christians I’ve seen around. I can see why this isn’t a popular idea.
But I’m telling you, kids are evil. I have scars to prove it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dylan_73 *
**
(I make no claims about knowing reality, but it sure seems as though you’re ready to tell us all about your “religious” reality. I just study the world around me and arrive at my own conclusions. One of which is that most religion involves adding an extra layer of psychobabble to your perception of reality.)
(Feel free to be an irresponsible and meaningless part of nothingness dylan_73. I know that I live a purposeful and meaningful life in a wonderfully organized system of astounding beauty. After being abused by many of the Christians that I know and seeing the likes of Bakker and Swaggert, I also know that I am a very responsible person. You might be amused to find that we agree about one thing very strongly. I firmly believe that there is only, “One Way”. That, in many situations, you have almost no choice but to do the right thing. I just do not happen to need some one else’s archaic interpretation of reality to instruct me about what to do.)
(To paraphrase Voltaire, “If God did not exist, man would have to make him up.” Since no one that I have ever met has been able to show me or persuade me of the existence or nonexistence of God, I can only believe that everyone is manufacturing their own image of God. Maybe this is why there is so much religious conflict in this world about how God manifests and to whom. Otherwise, if everyone was seeing God, wouldn’t they all be seeing the same God?)
(Not to fear dylan_73, I follow the writings of others. I just happen to select works that do not require blind faith or dogmatism. Funny how a lot of scientific literature makes no such demand upon the reader. By the way dylan_73, have you read, “Zen Flesh, Zen Bones”?)
(At least my Christian business partner has the wisdom to realize that he does not want to convert me. He himself said that if he could convert me, then anyone else could come along and convert me to something else. As to your comparison, that’s funny, I like rhubarb. People can be introduced to properly prepared foods and suddenly find that they like them. My friend Eric is now firmly addicted to salmon skin hand rolls at the sushi bar (something he would never have touched two years ago). Your closing line of intolerant “humor” speaks volumes about you.)
**
There are plenty of people here who consider themselves people of faith – of many religions – and they are by and large perfectly happy to discuss their beliefs with those who are truly interested in them and appear able to maintain a modicum of respect about them, even if they cannot share them.
There are far fewer people who are willing to put what they believe on display for someone’s entertainment or “amusement.” You see how many have flocked to answer your oh-so-heartfelt call, don’t you?
I don’t know if you’re a consistent troll or not (though I’ beginning to have my suspicions), but this particular post is trollish, and is getting the attention it rightly deserves from thinking religious people – which is to say, none.
I think (hope) he was joking…