(Forgive me if this question’s already been asked, but I couldn’t figure what search words would be appropriate)
One thing that’s always kinda bugged me, ever since I was a kid growing up in a fairly religious family, was- why’s it sad when someone dies?
I mean, assuming the deceased was a decent, God-fearin’, churchgoin’, all-around nice guy (which is the popular assumption, at least according to all of the funerals I’ve ever been to- they never say, “It’s a shame he’ll be spending all of eternity in Hell”), then he’s fine. Heck, better than fine- Heaven’s supposed to be a great place to spend the rest of Eternity. The deceased, if christianity is correct, will now get to live forever in eternal bliss, surrounded by loved ones.
Why all the tears?
Logically speaking, it’s not like it’s going to be a long time ‘til the bereaved get to see the ol’ stiff again- when you’re comparing to Eternity, a few decades aren’t much at all. That’s no time at all.
Really, death shouldn’t mean anything at all- if anything, it should be an occasion for real celebration, right? Sure, you’ll miss the old guy for a bit, but he’s literally going to A Better Place.
So what’s the deal? Why do devout Christians (and other worshippers of similarly-inclined religions) get so upset at the death of loved ones?
For the record, I’m an atheist. I know why I’m sad if someone I love dies… but I’m confused as to why a theist would be.
I have relatives in Florida. I know that they’re doing well and are happy. Despite e-mail and the phone, I miss them.
I may believe that my dead relatives are in a much better place. But, I can’t e-mail them, call them, or call US Air to arrange a visit. As I don’t plan on dying for another few decades, I don’t expect to see them any time soon.
Theists and atheists aren’t really that different. A theist will be hurting for all the same reasons you’re hurting, and even though a few decades is no time at all against all eternity, it’s still a heck of a long time on earth. Sure, maybe after we’re reunited in heaven the time apart will seem like a moment, but it sure won’t feel like that in the here and now after a loved one’s death.
I think the problem is that *logically speaking * there should be no pain or tears. Being a theist doesn’t mean that you’ve removed all traces of emotion from yourself and can only think in logical terms. In times of high emotion like after a death, you can throw logic out the window.
For the record, I try to be a Christian, but sometimes it’s hard for me to believe in it all.
makes you understand a bit that people who believe in (a) God not necessarely rejoice when someone who was part of their life since the day they were born dies.
I have a question for you: How did you reach the conclusion that we do not love people just the way your do and hence can not feel completely lost when all of a sudden someone we love dies?
But isn’t someone going to Heaven a lot different from, say someone going to Florida? When they moved, did you mourn as much as you would if they were dead?
For me, someone’s death is, well, permanent. As an atheist, I’m pretty darned sure I’ll never see my mom again. Ever. And I was understandably devastated.
But when my best friend from high school moved away, and I knew that I’d probably never see him again, I was sad… but I didn’t mourn him.
As for the funerals being about the bereaved… that I can understand. What I don’t understand, though, is why the survivors need to throw a funeral.
Now, I can get behind the idea of a wake. I can respect and understand the urge to throw a party to celebrate the deceased’s life. That’s cool.
How did you get the impression that Lightnin said anything close to that?
In any case, Lightnin does have some point. If we don’t consider loved ones (due to the “we’ll miss them” issue), people still feel bad if they see on TV that several people died.
If you truly believe in God and a better afterlife, why would you feel sad about those that died?
Actually, I have a similar question for atheists: if all we are are a bunch of molecules that think, and when we die, nothing really happens, what is the problem with death? The molecules that make up “Joe” stop thinking and get recycled back into the earth. What is there to feel sad about? (Again, ignoring loved ones, just deaths you hear about in the news)
As a result, I always wondered why we are bothered by death, since whether you are a theist or atheist, there really is no logical reason to be sad.
Of course, we are in fact bothered by death, even of complete strangers, so there must be some reason, though it’s not clear to me.
There is no difference in feelings of love and attachment between a religious and a non-religious person.
In my opinion the only difference is that a religious person in one way or an other is convinced that death is not the end of everything = that the person who died is gone to a better place and that there is an opportunity to be reunited at some point in the future (or that there is a reincarnation or whatever the religion’s ideas about this).
That does not mean that you are not able to feel just the same emptyness and sadness as someone who does not have such beliefs.
If you are able to feel nothing then that means nothing else then that the person didn’t mean anything at all to you or to your life. It means that if they gave you love, that doesn’t mean a thing to you. It means that all they did for you, all the difference their life and presence made in your life, does not matter to you. You go on as if they were never there because it doesn’t matter that they aren’t there anymore.
Well, to me it matters. So maybe I’m not a good Muslim, or what is the question the OP is asking? I really don’t see why you think it is something abnormal to be sad over the loss of some one you loved very dearly, only because you happen to believe in God.
I don’t understand the meaning of the sentence “throw a funeral”. Do you mean we should not give a person we love a worthy funeral to show our respect and love? What should we do then in your opinion?
As for celebrating someone’s life: I do this by feeling my loss every second more and more. My religion is a help to deal with this and to sodften the pain.
Do you happen to have the same ideas about cherishing the memories of those who are dead for a longer period and be sad that they are not there anymore? Do you think people simply should be forgotten once they are dead? If so, I am very interested to hear how you manage to do that.
Aldeberan When throw is linked to an event or celebration, it simply means ‘to organize, plan and / or host’. ‘I’m throwing a party’ simply means ‘I have planned a party, which will be at my house’ This is the first time I’ve seen the phrase used with a funeral though.
I also think you misunderstand the OP. Lightnin’ is just asking ‘If you believe the person is in paradise, why are you sad?’ He isn’t saying we don’t love these people.
Death is an unnatural ripping apart of the soul and body, and the ultimate manifestation of the disease that afflicted our nature as a result of the fall. As a result, it is perfectly proper to mourn such an event, which is the culmination of the process of physical decay. The person’s soul departs for realms unknown to us, and their body (which is just as much a part of a person as the soul is) decays and turns to dust. The mourning should not be a hopeless, despairing sort, though, because the sorrow of death is tempered by the fact that in Christ death has ultimately been defeated, and the damage that it causes will eventually be rectified.
More to the point, for both Catholics and Orthodox, the funeral rites (and especially the Divine Liturgy or Mass) are a way for the faithful to assist the departed in their post-mortem state, whether one believes, as the Catholics do, that they remit the temporal punishment being suffered in Purgatory, or, as the Orthodox do, that they assist in a general way the soul’s purification and ascent to the presence of God. Hence, the prayers and vigil over the dead (the Catholics have the saying of the rosary, the Orthodox the reading of the psalms), the Masses and Liturgies offered on behalf of the dead, etc. are indeed primarily for the deceased’s benefit, as well as offering solace to the mourners.
dammit, yBeayf got here before me & said it all better than I would have anyway S
People forget that in Christian theology, death as we know it is not an original part of God’s intent in Creation (I don’t necessarily think that means an unfallen humanity would have remained in Earthly physical immortality, more that when one’s Earthly time had run its course unfallen people would move seamlessly into the next phase of Eternal Life); and that the souls of the departed are not enjoying their full life with God but still await their fulfillment in the Resurrection.
I can only offer my experience to this - I don’t have all the doctinal facts or whatever.
I am a Christian, and so is my grandma. My grandma is dying of cancer - we’re talking days or weeks from dying, not months. It’s devastating. My Christian friends have trotted out the “well, at least you’ll see her again one day” line as an attempt to comfort me, but right now, where I’m at, it doesn’t make any difference. I know that they’re right, it’s not that I have doubts about it. It’s just that one day is a very long time away, and I don’t know a world that doesn’t have my grandma in it. I will miss her. I bought a new house a couple of months ago, and she’ll never see it. If I get married she won’t be there and see me on my wedding day, if I have kids, they’ll never know the richness that she could have brought to their lives. Maybe that’s selfish on my part, but I think she wishes for those things too. It hurts like hell, no matter what I believe and what she believes. It’s hard to tell yourself that she will be in a much better place, and that once she’s there, given a choice, she wouldn’t even want to come back. I believe it, but it doesn’t make anything feel better. So now as she as dying, and moreso when it finally happens, I and my family and greiving and hurting.
A kind of analogy is a few years ago, my parents moved to the US. They were over 25 hours away if anything happened. It was indefinite and I didn’t know when or if they’d be back, and due to prohibative costs, I wasn’t going to see them more than once a year tops. When they left, I cried quite a bit and it was really hard. And they weren’t dead, just a long way away - I could still phone them and email them! Losing someone to death is a similar emotion, but a 1000 times worse, because it’s permanent (or at least until you also die which is many years away, hopefully).
I’m not explaining this very well (and I’m getting emotional just thinking about my grandma), but I guess that’s where I’m at. I think the best way to put it is what someone said to me about my grandma “it’s sad - very sad- but it isn’t tragic”. I think that sums it up really.
I’m a Christian. My mom died when I was 15. Yes, I know I will see her again. Yes, I believe she can see me. BUt I was devastated because I didn’t have my mom to raise me. I knew she wouldn’t be there to see me graduate, get married, have kids…That is something that was taken away from me. I miss her, like I knew I would. That’s why it’s sad for me. When I hear on the news about other people dying, it makes me sad because I know that in most cases, that person has a family that will feel just as awful as I did (and do) and I would not wish that sadness and hurt on anyone.
**mamakat ** and **robinc308 ** both made interesting observations that struck home with me. When someone dies, *your * world changes. Change your world radically enough, and you change who you are; at least, it can feel that way.
It’s hard, and sometimes frightening, to imagine a world in which your loved one no longer exists. Often times, just knowing your mom/dad/grandpa is “out there” is enough to get you through the bad times we all go through. Remove that support, and we all feel adrift for a while.
In a sense, we are grieving for ourselves, as others have pointed out. More specifically, we’re grieving for the world we’ve just lost, and wondering what the world will be like for us tomorow.
I said I wouldn’t speak for Christians, and I didn’t, and won’t, but this thread is addressed to theists in general.
Not every religion believes the above. Many view death as an integral part of life. Many celebrate death.
Whether you believe in an eternal paradise afterlife or not, though, or you celebrate death, or whatever, you still miss the person. Like when your child goes away to college. :-p
I’m not trying to pick here- I’m genuinely curious: Why do you think your mother sees you from beyond? As in sees you physically. I don’t think I’m phrasing this properly. If it’s a sore subject I completely understand. My intent is also not to pick at your faith either-I’m just curious to this one aspect.
Does it say this in your religion?
In any event, again, I’m not trying to step on your toes or anything, it’s just curious to me.
