There's a registered sex offender living in my neighborhood...

Great Debates
141

As of this morning’s paper, it is public knowledge. Beacause I refuse to risk banning, I will not write the name of the Level 2 Sex Offender who lives four fucking blocks from my home. He has just been charged with a misdemeanor-- because he’s been here for** 2 years** and never registered with the local police.

My local newspaper, which serves several counties, has published **his photograph and full name. **I have in my hands the print-out sent home by the schools. It was faxed from the **** Village Police Department. It gives his full name, and says that they can only give his zip code. The newspaper has already provided us with a photo and his street name.

Aside from that, my daughter told me that his address on that street is common knowledge at the school. That means it’s common knowledge around the village. The Police may not release it, but that’s irrelevant.

Now I get to put my money where my mouth is and sit down with the kids and talk to them about this in graphic detail. My daughter’s 13, my son is almost 15. They will know in no uncertain terms exactly what this man did, because they will read the story in the paper.

If there are protests, I will march. I will be extremely careful not to violate the laws in any manner. However, I sure as hell will exercise my rights to express my feelings in a lawful manner.

Every single day and night for as long as I wish to do so. Week after week, month after month.

See, our county has been going through this for a few months now. About…30 miles away, the identical situation. Except for the numbers- crowded housing development, roughly 175-200 kids living there, RSO with his parents. ( No, I will not name the town. No, I will not name the RSO. Again, the Chicago Reader has made their position extremely clear. This is what Google is for. ) There are nightly protests outside of the home.

This person in my Village stopped Parole Supervision in 2003- about the time that he moved into this town and did NOT register with the local police department, as is required forever, by law. Today he appears in Village court to answer to those charges. Tomorrow’s paper will share the outcome of that situation- or at least update the citizens.

His target victim, as proven by his felony rape conviction, is a female of approximately my daughter’s age. I don’t think I am out of line to be seriously concerned about this. The Village Police have shared this information. It is not rumor.

:frowning:

142

This sub-human didn’t just rape a 14 year old girl.

He kidnapped her, kept her hostage for a solid month in an abandoned building. He raped her endlessly, and starved her. At one point she was not fed for 7 days.

After a month he was caught.

Just so we are all really crystal clear on whether or not this is one of those “wiggle room” cases where a RSO isn’t really a “sex offender” as much as a frisky boyfriend who is a year too old.

This happened 17 years ago. He was 26. She was 14. Just so we’re all clear on this.

143

I was going to point out to you that “felony rape” in New York state includes three degrees of crime, and the second two include statutory rape in which there is a legal fiction that there is no consent from the minor, even though she may be avidly seeking sex in point of reality.

However, of course, you are entirely right in your loathing of this particular person’s crime. And I only bring up the above to keep the thread “balanced” –
noting that there are both the technical offenders and the true sociopathic types like C’verse’s neighbor.

Next question is rhetorical, and specifically not directed at C’verse. Suppose seventeen years of prison has changed that man, so that he’s as disgusted by what he did as we are, and wants to get a new start. Suppose that what he did was an effort to distance himself from his past. At what point is it proper to give forgiveness and acceptance, and not panic about him.

Then suppose that the previous paragraph is not true, but that he cons you into believing it is. At what point, in the absence of an ability to “truth-read” his mind, can you put any trust in him? And to what extent is C’verse justified in endangering or protecting his children, to hold to either of the above scenarios?

It ain’t a simple problem.

144

I totally sympathize with your loathing for this person’s crime and your concern about his presence near your children. That was a horrible, atrocious, inexcusable thing to do.

But I’m confused about the protests. What are they for? Just to state your opposition to sex crimes? You have a perfect right to do that, but I’d imagine it’s kind of superfluous.

Or is it to try to drive the RSO’s out of the neighborhood? Why? I know you don’t like having them there, nor would anybody else. But as has been pointed out, there are former sex offenders everywhere. If they are driven out of one neighborhood as soon as the neighbors know about them, then they’ll just go somewhere else and try to get away with remaining unknown and not registering—as this guy seems to have successfully done for two years.

Aren’t your kids in more danger from unidentified RSO’s than from identifiedones? Wouldn’t you rather know who and where these people are than to have new, unknown ones constantly migrating through the population because they’re successively driven out of every place they move to?

145

As you can tell from reading my posts in this thread, this is a very difficult topic for me to approach clinically. The last few posts may show why now it’s harder than it was 48 hours ago. Having said that, both of you raise excellent points.

Polycarp, the recidivism issue seems to be central here. While emotionally I would have a hell of a time forgiving such a crime ( in fact, it is unforgivable ), if there were no recidivism issues then yeah, he paid his debt to society as they say. His whereabouts should have been tracked all the way, due to the nature of his crime but if I knew absolutely that my kids…all kids were safe around him, then so be it. He’s an ex-con and nothing more.

But as you said there is no truth-mind reading going on. People who rape kids do it again and again and again and again. I dunno that I’m endangering my children as much as I am trying to empower them with information. It’s ironic- one does not fear what what does not see. This man has lived in this house for 2 years- but since he never registered with the Village Police, I didn’t know to be scared or outraged. The times my kids have cut through the woods to get to the park…aiiieeee god.

kimstu, yes they are in more danger from the unidentified stranger. As I said just there above, who knew? However, one makes judgement calls as to one’s safety based solely on information at hand. When that information shifts, one shifts to compensate. I’m a pretty darned paranoid guy, and I still wish to think my kids coulda ridden their bikes to the park. Now? Nope. This man kidnapped a girl basically the age of my daughter by force, and kept her for a month. My kid will not be riding her bike. Not alone, not with her brother.

I resent that loss of freedom, but I also refuse to ignore the reality of the situation. This man is living with his girlfriend. ( !!! ) and apparently has part-time work. I will see him in stores, in town, at the gas station. How do you deal with being next in line at the Mobil On The Run, behind a monster? :confused:

My daughter would likely face expulsion if I gave her pepper spray. Darned shame. I am calling to see what the School District Policy is regarding the small portable air horns that are powered by a tiny can of compressed air. It might well scare him off, were he to approach her.

She has a good friend from her classes who lives on that block. A girl who is either 13 or 14 right now. One wonders what the folks on that block are going to do.

To answer your question about the protests, all I can say is this. Being sexually abused involves a loss of power on a most fundamental level. Yes, it’s illegal to harrass or abuse or approach this person in any way. It is not illegal to protest. It may well be that having some bit of control over how one has to live, post-RSO , is a healthy thing. Speaking one’s mind is not legislated as a part of Megan’s Law. One is permitted to protest as long as there are no threats made, etc. It will not only put a face on the criminal, it will put faces on the faceless fears we all are enduring right now.

As I mentioned above in this thread, there’s that fine line between illegally surveilling the man and going for a nice walk in the evening…up and down the block a few times, to get some air. No crime there. Everyone’s allowed to take a walk now and again…

More details as this unfolds.

146

I think you mean “rationally.”

and

So, this guy is going to do it “again and again and again and again,” and yet he’s managed to live in your community for two years, appraently without hurting anyone, without doing anything at all to suggest that he might be dangerous, indeed without anyone even knowing he’s there.

Is it at all possible that he’s learned from his 17 years of prison, and is either (a) properly reformed, or (b) too scared of going back to try it again?

147

Spare us.

Christ, you act like you’re the only person in America living in the same neighbourhood as a registered sex offender.

By the way, if all your protests and your “nice walks” down his block in the evening do eventually force him out, what do you think happens next? That’s right, he moves into another neighbourhood, near someone else’s kids.

Not only that, but if he does indeed have any propensity to commit more crime, then that is likely to be exacerbated by constant harrassment and abuse and protests. He might, in the face of such pressure, figure that his life is already so fucked up that there is no downside to going back to prison, and so he’ll offend again.

Of course, by then he’ll be in someone else’s neighbourhood, so it won’t be your problem.

148

Ahh, so your answer is, he’s not a problem until we make him one? That’s known as a variation on the ‘blame the victim’ gambit.

Cartooniverse, your anger is carrying you right now, though I agree with your basic stance. Parents - and please hear this, all of you who do not fit that category - have a unique responsiblity for the weakest in society. If my child is the next victim, you’ll watch the news snug in your home, protected by that vast gulf between us. My child and my family will live with the impact every day, forever. I know what I’m talking about. You don’t get that. Fine. Just knock off the pathetic minimalization of the devastation one, repeat one person can cause.

149

No, that’s not my position at all.

My position is that the guy has apparently, without Cartooniverse or anyone else noticing, been living in the area for two years without causing any trouble. The first thing that tells us is that we might have to revise Cartooniverse’s blanket assertion that “People who rape kids do it again and again and again and again.”

Furthermore, if the guy is, in fact, trying to go straight and put his past heinous acts behind him, the sort of protests and harrassment being advocated by some people in this thread are not likely to help the situation, and may even harm it.

As for your “blame the victim” assertion, that’s just stupid. Who is the victim here? As far as i can tell, Cartooniverse is the victim of nothing but his own paranoia and irrationality, and his kids have had no contact at all with the registered sex offender. So the only victim we could be talking about is the offender’s original victim, for whom i feel great sympathy. And the offender himself has already spent 17 years paying for that crime.

And, as i said, the type of NIMBYism being demonstrated here is completely counterproductive, because it posits that the only solution to these sort of complex issues is to push the problem off onto someone else.

Ah, another version of the intellectually bankrupt “You can’t understand if you’re not a parent” argument. You do yourself no favours reducing the debate to such an irrational level.

Where did i minimize the damage that one person can cause? I feel terribly sorry for this person’s victim, and i truly hope that she’s been able to maintain some semblance of a life after what must have been an incredibly traumatic experience, both for her and for her family.

My argument has nothing to with the damage this guy has done in the past. Nor, actually, does it have anything to do with parents taking reasonable precautions for the safety of their children. I’m all for that. What mny argument is concerned with is hyperbolic, irrational responses that can actually serve to cause more problems than they solve, by creating unnecessary paranoia and hysteria.

150

Fortunately for those Dopers and Guests reading this thread, you are not a Moderator, nor are you an Administrator. So telling me to “spare you” is a tone of comment best suited for The Pit. I wholeheartedly invite you to take that level of distain on over there where it belongs.

No, I am not the only person in America to face this. Ahem. Read the OP again. I have read it more than once. So…uh… I’m not the only person in America to face this. I readily admit this. Ok?

It’s fascinating that one can be a total apologist and supporter for a kidnapper rapist, and yet in the same thread attack someone distressed for…having the gall to wish to protect their daughter. You actually think that protesting ( which, despite your apparent wishes to the contrary, is protected by the 1st Ammendment ) will somehow incide this otherwise calm, regretful, recalcitrant, model citizen to kidnap and rape again.

Because I marched in protest against his presence in my neighborhood. Gosh, that’s novel. Excuse me for the analogy, but that’s an awful lot like blaming Martin Luther King Jr’s speech on the Mall in Washington, D.C. for every racially motivated murder that occurred since then.

Free speech does not promote kidnapping and rape, and frankly it’s a wee bit appalling that you would even think to suggest such a thing.

151

Oh, just to keep it honest: Kidnap/rape in 1988. 12 years incarcerated. Released. 3 years probation. Probation ended in 2003. Moved when probation ended, from city where he was already a RSO, to the Village where I live, where he promptly violated the law by not registering.

152

Interesting that you claim that my attitude should be in the Pit, and yet you now call me not only and apologist for a rapist and kidnapper, but an actual supporter of him.

Pot, meet kettle.

Well, depends on the type of protesting. Some courts have held in cases like this that certain types of protests, depending on how, when and where they are conducted, constitute illegal harrassment.

And i’m not saying that the protesting would, by itself, cause him to reoffend. I’m just pointing out that if it rises to the level of harrassment that seems to be implied in some of your posts, he might find it more difficult to stay on the straight and narrow, and might feel that he has less incentive to stay straight.

No, i won’t excuse you for the analogy, because it’s patently ridiculous.

And again i ask you, now that he’s been released, and has apparently been in that same neighbourhood for two years with no adverse consequences for the inhabitants of the area, what exactly do you hope to accomplish? You keep alleging that people like him will inevitably reoffend, and yet, even under circumstances that suggest that he might have turned over a new leaf, you’re doing everything you can to make leading a law-abiding life difficult for him.

And, as i said before, even if you force him to move, what have you actually accomplished except to push your own problem off onto a different set of parents.

If that’s what you took from my argument, there really is no helping you. Great Debates implies an ability to think rationally. You may well have that ability; you just don’t seem to apply it in this case. I’m done with you.

153

If he broke the law by not registering, won’t he go to jail for that?

154

Agreed. Seems to me that a more careful reading of my posts would indicate that I made it pretty darned clear that I would do what was legally allowed. In fact, this is exactly what I said : " If there are protests, I will march. I will be extremely careful not to violate the laws in any manner. However, I sure as hell will exercise my rights to express my feelings in a lawful manner. "

See above. I stated, rather than implied, a desire to protest within the legal limits and no more.

You are in effect laying the sole responsibility for this man’s recidivism at the feet of people who wish to - legally - protest his presence in their neighborhood. Not blaming the victims or anything here, are we?.. He’s an adult. He alone is responsible for what he does or does not do.

It is patently ridiculous to accuse people in this country of making life difficult for someone, because they chose to exercise their Constitutional right to assemble. Or, is it just not fair if the protestors aren’t fulfilling your agenda? What if a huge crowd gathered in ardent support of this man and his right to do as he pleased in our community- and one fellow down the block objected to the hue and cry in the street? You gonna raise up a ruckus about alla those protestors in that case? I would love to believe that if you feel public protest foments illegal activities such as rape and kidnapping, that you would just up and say so. Because saying that participating in a public protest “makes it difficult for him” ( sic) is a bit of a push.

Additionally, I am capable of filtering the information and thinking about what a human being is, and what they do. A 26 year old man being sexually involved with a 14 year old young woman can go up for rape, no doubt. Are there 12-year age differences in relationships. Absolutely. Is it relevant here? Not one bit. I am able to look at the facts, and consider what this man is. Not what he was, but what he is. He isn’t just a pedophile who preyed upon a teenage girl. He is a kidnapper who kept her for a month, starving and raping her repeatedly during that time. That is not an uncontrollable spasm of pedophelia. That is a sociopathic act- that only stopped after one month because he was apprehended. I look at that, and as you said above- " might have turned over a new leaf"- how? How can one consider such a thing?

I’m asking you to sit there and really think for a few minutes. When you were a very young boy, your mother may well have been in her 20’s. ( wild guess, I don’t know anything about you- but the point will be well taken anyway in a moment ). Imagine your mother kidnapped and held for a month, raped repeatedly and starved for a week at a time. Now, fast-forward to now. You are generously inclined to think that the man who did that to Mom has now turned over a new leaf, and is just fine and dandy to live down the street from? Do you truly, honestly believe that? This is Great Debates, maybe a part of the debate in this thread is this : Do you truly believe you can forgive and move past any act, no matter how monstrous and damaging?? Not here in a public message board where you can say anything with impugnity. This guy is four blocks over. So, think about Mom in her 20’s, when you were a little boy. Think about what that would have done to Mom, and to your family.

Then subtract 10 years of maturity and stability, and think about your Mom when she was only 14. Still happy to have Mr. New Leaf living down the street? No problems there? None? Wouldn’t want to have him gone? Wouldn’t care? Nothing? That may well be the case, and I am not going to comment upon it if it is ( believe it or not ). I am just asking you… to sit there and think about that as a reality, not as an abstract topic of debate here. Think about the reality, and tell me what your response would be. ( If you will. If not, I have to respect that. )

Oh, thank god. Perhaps I can once again have permission then, to actually post in here with facts that directly address the OP’er of this thread and a similar situation that is happening locally, without being told " Spare Us". Wahoo baby.

It does occur to me that this was moved into G.D. because the discussion is more of a heated debate and less of a topic that was appropriate to the forum of origin. ( That is in no way meant as a slight to the OP’er, the thread developed on it’s own ). It’s a stretch to say that one can only debate in Great Debates with cold logic and rationally developed lines of argument. That is typically the backbone of a debate- which is why I have provided as many facts as I could here without violating the clear guidelines now established by The Chicago Reader. My position is fairly clear here, and I have supported it with both facts concerning the severity of what this particular offender has done, as well as my reactions and those of the local media and citizenry. I cannot cite, it would be a bannable offense. Anyone wishing to have me cite the name, town and police chief’s name is welcome to email me so that the details that are not allowed in this Board may be discussed privately. I am glad to debate this topic and yeah, it is an emotionally charged one. -shrug- that’s life, you know.

155

Larry Borgia, didn’t see your query on Preview.

He appeared in court today. He was bailed out by his girlfriend. Bail was $ 500.00. He has a court date to answer to the charges in a few weeks, first week in April I believe. I do not know the law, but the newspaper said that the lack of registering was a Misdemeanor, not a Felony offense. I dunno- any attorneys around?

Can people go to jail on a Misdemeanor?

156

About 25 years ago, a member of my family was convicted of a sexual offense against a child.

I attended the procedings, and I still can’t say with any certainty whether he was guilty or not.

Listening to the comments of others outside the courtroom, I can tell you, there was a hanging mood permeating the process.

Child molestation is an accusation that causes immediate visceral reactions. As noted in other threads such as this one, the urge to convict can lead to the ruin of innocent lives.

There are many innocent men on Death Row, as we are now discovering. No doubt, there are innocent men in these sex offender registries. I’m not saying most or even many, but there’s no doubt in my mind that some of these guys did nothing at all.

Just keep that in mind. For what it’s worth.

157

It’s a horrible thing to be accused of doing wrong when you did not wrong. No argument there. It’s the classic divorce move- the man is immediately accused of molesting the kids when divorce proceedings commence.

I will be glad to email you the specifics of this situation. Trust me when I say that this man kidnapped that 14 year old girl and raped her over and over during a one-month span, until she was found and he was arrested. She is alive. She was instrumental in his prosecution. He did exactly what he was convicted of doing.

The word " innocent " is inappropriate, IMHO.

158

If you were responding to my post, Cartooniverse, I wasn’t referencing this specific case, or any case. I was responding to the OP, and cautioning those who are in favor of giving no quarter to anyone who appears on a sex offender registry. That’s all. And no, I don’t care to receive any specifics of any crime. I did a stint writing on killers like Dean Corll and Leonard Lake. I’ve seen enough, thanks.

159

Sigh.

You know, you’re going to get offended by this, but i don’t much care any more. The fact is, i just don’t believe you. Your irrationality on the subject suggests that, even with the best intentions, you’ll find it hard to keep to lawful measures in your hysteria; even moreso when you find yourself on the street with some like-minded vigilantes.

If you’re really going to do nothing more than march on city hall, or whatever, then go right ahead. If you’re going to gather outside the guy’s place for a loud shouting match, i’ll support your right to do so; but i also maintain the right to assert that, even if you’re not carrying pitchforks and flaming torches, it doesn’t make you any less of a mob.

No, i’m not laying the “sole responsibilty” at your feet. If the guy reoffends, then he will be entirely responsible for his own actions. I’m simply pointing out that the sort of antipathy and hostility you are encourage will not make it any easier for him to lead the normal life that you claim to want for your community.

And again, tell me who the victims are here, please? You? Your neighbours? Give me a break. As i said before, you’re the victim of nothing but your own hysteria. You’ve made quite clear that the guy has lived there for two years, with no adverse consequences for you or anyone else. What, exactly, are you a victim of?

Exactly.

He was responsible for his original crime, and has served the sentence that the justice system meted out for that crime.

He is also responsible for his current behaviour which, if your tale is any indication, is rather unexceptional. Not only has he lived in your area for two years, but he has actually been out of jail for five years so far, according to your own information.

Tell me this: exactly how long would he have to be out before you might even begin to concede that he might be reformed? 10 years? 30? Until he’s 110?

Please help me here by providing your qualifications in psychology and/or psychiatry and/or criminology, as well as your intimate knowledge of how this case proceeded. Is your judgmeent a clinical appraisal based on appropriate education and access to all the material on the case? Or did you pluck it out of your ass?

These pointless and silly hypotheticals make very clear why our criminal justice system does not allow the families of crime victims to make unilateral decisions about punishment.

Furthermore, you’re asking me to put myself in the position of a victim’s family member. If someone did something like that my family, i would not ever forgive them. But i also recognize that, for this precise reason, it should not be me who makes the decision about how to punish that person.

Also, why is your little hypothetical about my mother relevant to this discussion? How will it help me understand your situation? You’re just some guy; you’re not the victim of this guy’s previous crime, are you? Is the family of this particular offender’s victim even living in your village?

Or is this another self-serving attempt to paint yourself as the victim of something that hasn’t actually happened yet?

Wow, you really are a peach, aren’t you?

160

With all due respect, mhendo, if this man has done what cartooniverse says he’s done, there is no coming back from that. There’s no rehabilitation for a person who will kidnap, rape, and torture a child for weeks. And yes, research supports that assertion. No time to find cites tonight – my warm, quiet, suburban bed is calling. I’ll see what I can find later.