THANK YOU. From the bottom of my heart. Um, the whole “let’s work half the time and get paid half as much” had me perplexed and seeing visions of socialism. Not to mention ignores the fact that some of us actually ENJOY our jobs (imagine THAT!). Working an 8 or 9 (or more) hour day, spending time with your family AND having quiet “down-time” are all possible with a minor amount of time management. I am not arguing that having four or more hours per day to do as I choose wouldn’t be nice…I’m just saying that my family is pretty damn satisfied with our current use of time.
And since no one else has said it: Coldfire was dead on.
Our state sales tax is 4.5% and restaurants here carry a “luxury” tax of 10 or 11% (can’t remember which it is).
As for fresh fruits and veggies costing more: they do. At least here they do. But they don’t cost SO MUCH more that the purchase of fresh food is intangible. A minor budget adjustment and a minor dose of ingenuity would allow for all the fruits and veggies a family needs.
Well, you could go to a grocery store-around here, bananas were usually 25 cents a pound, or less. And there’s frozen and canned veggies-not as good, obviously, but better than Mickey D’s.
I’m in the UK, and I’m as poor as you can possibly get in the UK while still having a roof over your head. I *definitely *find it cheaper to buy fresh food than processed food or junk food. For example, a happy meal costs £1.99, for which money I can buy 500g of pork mince, a tin of tomatoes, a pack of pasta, and a head of broccolli, and make a basic pasta meal which will feed my daughter and me and leave us with lots of food to use next time.
According to this study, 1lb of hamburger costs about $2.53, while of potatoes costs 99 cents of rice costs 69 cents, of oranges costs 69 cents. Frozen veggies are even cheaper (and don’t lose much in nutrition). It is not cheaper to buy unhealthy food.
The only time it starts to seem cheaper to buy junk is if you’re a single person, and fresh food will decay before you get a chance to use it. Frozen veggies helps with that, as does cooking your own meals and freezing the leftovers.
Of course I’m assuming that most people in the US have access to a freezer, but going on the size of those cool chrome fridges, you must do!
Indeed! Medicare paid 50% of the expenses of gastric bypass surgery for me because it is considered cost effective. My regular insurance paid another forty percent. Medicare pays but only if you are at least 100 pounds overweight (for a woman) and have unsuccessfully tried a number of programs to lose weight and keep it off.
If public schools were adequately funded, schools wouldn’t have to sell doughnuts and candy to raise money. So some of the funding of schools comes at the price of having so many obese children.
Do individuals can food anymore? That way you can buy produce when it is least expensive and preserve it for use year-round. They lose some nutrients but probably not as much as the processed food in the supermarket. And they taste great!
Wow … that’s interesting considering that I eat whatever the hell I want (tonight I ate most of a pizza and a bunch of sugary stuff), generally don’t exercise much and I maintain a fairly constant 145-150 lb bodyweight. I’ve gone more than a week without eating a single fruit or vegetable unless it was fried.
Then you have my hunny, who eats better (i.e. not junk) than I do, exercises more, and weighs about 50-60 lb more.
So you can take that theory and shove it up your ass. I hope there’s enough room for that bag of hot air, what with your head already being firmly entrenched.
Around here, FWIW, fresh fruit and such things generally cost less than stuff like pasta. I can get five pizzas for five bucks, and those’ll feed me for a few days. 12 packs of ramen noodles cost me 1.50. The equivalent in bananas or apples wouldn’t go nearly as far. Don’t assume that just because stuff costs X in your area that it’ll cost X everywhere else or that it’s equally available.
When I was still morbidly obese, my adorable husband planned to push me around the D.C. mall in a wheelchair. I couldn’t take more than a few steps at a time – even when motivated by shopping.
By the time we got around to going to Washington, I had lost my weight from the bypass surgery and was able to walk straight up the steps of the Lincoln Memorial with no stops, no assistance and no bannister.
My weight has been stable for the last year. (I did regain 25 pound the first three years.) For some reason that I do not understand, I lost my craving for food. I don’t think about eating night and day like I used to.
Can overeating be an obsessive-compulsive disorder? I know that binge eating (different from binge and purge) is considered an eating disorder in the same way that anorexia nervosa is.
Wow, that’s GREAT that YOU can do so. It costs MUCH more for fresh edible (Emphasis on the EDIBLE) vegetables and fruits up here in Alaska. 4 boxes of Kraft Mac n Cheese is far less than a properly lean portion of proteins and fresh fruits and veggies.
I don’t know about other states, but I’d wager that areas not near the farm belt (is there such a word? sorry I’m out of the loop on lower 48 lingo), probably pay a pretty penny for good produce as well.
Even apples are about 2 bucks a pound up here, going down only slightly in the wintertime, and the ones that are lower than that are frequently the small mushy ones. Other fruits are generally above the 3 bucks per pound mark.
Simplistic, very simplistic answers. I’ve posted the stats, facts, and cites in many other “fat threads” (and so have many others “in the know” fitness wise), but the old tired worn out “eat less exercise more” is NOT a one size fits all solution.
For many people, once they are at the obese stage, it’s not a matter of “just” getting off their asses. Some people like to act as if it’s Soooo easy and simple, it’s not.
For many people it takes a great deal of shrewd calculations and “tricking” ones metablism, and a long time doing a lot of hard physical work often without having any outward success to show for it (again, you have to read some of the other “fat threads” and read testimonies of people who drastically reduced calories and increased workouts and never lost a pound or inch for months on end).
If it were only a matter of will power then these obese Americans (50% you say?) would be likely be successful at their weight loss efforts. They certainly aren’t lazy, Americans work some of the longest hours per work week of any other country. They play hard and attend to many other responsibilities too.
There is something other than lack of willpower going on here. This thread is more about exploring what that problem might be, not more blaming, hatred and insults.
Perhaps the issue does not lie with obese people…but with the food industry and the FDA’s regulation of it (or the lack thereof)? This is my mother’s theory: today, children (people under the age of 18) are MUCH bigger than they were in generations past. She believes that the “growth hormones” that are fed to cattle and used to fertilize fresh produce are the main culprits. Thus, she now only consumes organic foods whenever possible. BUT, organic eating is DEFINITELY expensive. Basically, she believes that if cattle and produce are given hormones to be bigger, why wouldn’t those who consume these products also, with time, get bigger?
I worked in childcare for a few years and now I work in healthcare. In childcare I was taught that children who become fat before reaching their first birthday retain those fat cells and become a fat adult. I’m not sure I actually believe that though and that train of thought could well have changed by more recent studies.
In healthcare, I have seen the problems caused by obesity including infertility, heart disease, respiratory problems, immobility, stress on the body with having to lug all that excess weight around, fungal infections etc etc etc.
Surgical intervention is a real problem if it involves general anaesthetics. Most obesity is a result of over indulgence. Culture plays a part in obesity as well - some countries think big women are attractive. In (?) days gone by in Ireland a fat child was deemed to be a healthy and happy one.
Socially it’s really quite unacceptable for many. Think of the kids who have been ridiculed at school because they have a fat parent.
It’s not always that easy to change your lifestyle if you’ve gone so far as to become greatly obese but there’s got to be a point where you know you’ll have to do something. Basically it’s a case of you are what you eat - that simple really.
Even though Ego_Mk2 has mentioned this, I am going to flap my jaw (figuratively).
Overlyverbose – I think we really need to talk about shopping. The idea that preparing food from scratch is the cheapest route is widely supported. I have not seen a speck of evidence to support the contrary position.
Women’s advocacy groups often teach classes in cooking so that when women exit the shelter they’ll be able to eat well on a strict budget. Shelters and soup kitchens accept prepared food donations, but when they have to actually buy at market prices, they buy fresh produce and bulk beans and grains because that’s what cheap. CHEAP!
I don’t know how you are spending more than $100 a week on produce for two people. You too, Nightrabbit.
My personal advice is not to use coupons – most of the coupon items are prepared foods or drugstore items. I don’t buy much prepared foods and I get most of my drugstore items at the dollar store. (Full disclosure: Every dollar I save by buying generic dish liquid goes toward fancy Origins skin lotion. That’s my idea of economy.) However, if you’ve got kids I see the advantage to using coupons for ice cream and fish sticks. It is nice to “have something low fat and lower-calorie to just shove in the oven every once in a while.”
SciFiSamThis yank has a big freezer, and it’s chock-full of frozen meals that I cooked all by myself. If someone taught me to freeze rice and mashed potatoes without ruining the texture, I could do most of my cooking in one day.
ZoeThere are plenty of canners alive and well and canning in the modern world. Getting started is a bit of an investment, though.
For those of you in Alaska – doesn’t your state gov. give you a check each year to compensate for the high cost of having to import so much? And how much do Alaskans pay for a pound bag of lentils? And what about the low, low blueberry prices? Blueberries are full of good stuff.
I now return you to the topic of the OP: no fat tax. Not on people, not on McDonalds.
They DO make it. I’ve seen it at Sam’s/Wal-Mart, and at Kroger.
Ask your grocery store manager to order it. Even if they have to buy “a case” (8 lasagne to the case) you could probably put a few in the freezer and make it worth their effort.
Thanks, DDperson. I had no idea! I’ve asked the customer service people at the Schnucks here, and they’ve always told me that they don’t make it. I guess I’ve been shopping at the wrong place…
And j.c., I think my earlier response may have been somewhat misleading - I spend approximately $100 per week on groceries in general for two people, but most of what I buy comes from the produce section. And I do agree - in the long run it is cheaper to cook at home and bring your lunch to work. However, it is still cheaper to cook using unhealthier items than it is to cook using the healthier variety.
Buying cheaper cuts of higher-fat meat for dinner is more cost-effective than buying fish or boneless skinless chicken breasts, particularly if you’re cooking for a family. However, these are all semantics - yes, cooking at home will greatly reduce your costs plus usually results in healthier eating because you’re not getting all the hidden salt and fat in your food that you would get if you bought fast food all the time. This is generally true for anyone who eats at home, given they are eating the recommended portion sizes.
However, my argument here is that, even if you do cook at home, the typical items that people buy (e.g., meat, vegetables, fruit, pastas, rice), when lower-priced, are often fattier, more refined and less nutrient-rich than the healthier stuff, which is, in my experience, more costly. People often sacrifice quality for quantitiy. I think that’s something that most people can agree on.
But you’re right - you’re still saving a hell of a lot more money and eating much healthier than you would if you ate out at fast-food restaurants all the time.
I can easily spend $100 bucks a week on produce for my boyfriend and I, and that’s by carefully budgeting. And I live in Anchorage, out in the villages? It’s way more expensive.
As to the website on the so-called “Farmer’s Market”???
Um, NO! Not just no, but HELL no (sorry, the irritation is at the farmer’s market, not you). Yes, you can find Valley grown potatoes, cabbages and carrots at a not too dear price, but the Farmer’s Market, both the one at the 6th Avenue parking lot AND the one on Dowling are just tourist traps.
The peaches are about 4 bucks a pound and most produce is in line with that. Even the fruitstands are less expensive than the Farmer’s Market. No self-respecting mom would be caught dead buying produce there. It’s nice that they have all of that produce listed, but it’s misleading, most is imported from the states, NOT local, and NOT cheap.
VERY perplexed look…
Are you serious? That’s what people think the PFD is? (sorry not meaning to be snide to you, I’m just astounded that that’s the rumor in the states).
No, the PFD (permanent fund dividend) is a dividend paid to Alaskan residents from the oil lease revenues from the North Slope production. It has nothing to do with produce, or assistance in purchasing imports.
I don’t know about lentils, probably a couple of bucks for the 8-12 oz bag, I haven’t bought any for awhile too many carb grams. I usually stick with brown rice or fruit. I’m a BFL’r so I’m a big fan of cooking ahead in bulk.
However my statement about fruit and vegetables being excessively expensive wasn’t against cooking in bulk or using beans etc etc. It was about the high cost of fruits and vegetables, period. For the record, I agree that pastas, potatoes, rice, and grains are cheap, but they aren’t always the best choice for those who really need to lose a lot of weight, they’re too high on the glycemic index (fitday.com has a glycemic scale I think, if not, let me know, I’ll find another).
Blueberries are about 6 bucks for a small plastic box. I know, because I love them and eat them all the time. We only get them “in season” which is starting about now, and lasts until late summer (most of them come from Oregon). A papaya is about 4 bucks for one, same for japanese pear-apples and mangoes. Bananas and watermelon aren’t too bad, $0.89-$1.59 a pound, and sometimes if we’re really lucky they did down to 59 cents a pound. And of course only apples and oranges are in season for most of the year, and in the winter they send Alaskans the worst of the bunch.
I don’t know of anyone that picks berries up here and tries to sell them commercially, maybe roadside occasionally, but not where you can go and just pick them up. We have fruitstands in the “summer,” but they all imports and are even more expensive than the grocery stores, since the quality is better.
I do okay moneywise, so I’m pretty “hep” on what fruits cost since I indulge pretty frequently, and TRUST me after living here going on 34 years, and having raised one and a half kids (one’s only 12:D), I’m quite familiar with the prices and quality of the fruit and vegetables.
You make some good points, the trouble is, that many people aren’t where they need to be (meaning area-wise where they can be educated and assisted in learning, or education-wise ), in order to learn the right way to cook, the types of food to eat, etc. And again, I agree that potatoes, pasta, beans, flour, all the “carb heavy” stuff with the highest glycemic rating, are the cheapest.
So even if “poor” people who aren’t yet educated about proper nutrition aren’t eating at mickDs, they are still not eating the best nutrition, if they’re eating a lot of that type of food, even if they are cooking at home.
No kidding! My wife and I have been eating healthier, avoiding fast food, etc., since mid-February. This generally speaking involves lots of fresh fruit, vegetables, salads, lean meats, and almost exclusively eating in. Our grocery bill has increased 250%. I say again 250%!!! We easily spend on average $150.00 per week at the grocery store.
When we ate mac & cheese, hamburger helper, spaghetti, fast food, etc., we never spent nearly as much as we do now.
MeanJoe - which budget are you comparing? Your current grocery budget and your previous grocery budget, or your current budget and your prevoious grocery budget plus the money you were spending on take-out?