I’m not even saying that the statements and inflections that were made couldn’t be interpreted as flat-out racist, but that’s not the information we were given at the start of this rant. I believe a face-to-face confrontation can reveal more than just the words that were thrown down, but BG’s original recap of the incident wasn’t that clear.
[jackass]How do you know she was insinuating that you’re a racist? She could have been talking about “us people who post threads in the Pit.”[/jackass]
Seriously, when you respond to someone with “What the ever fuck!”, do you expect sweetness and niceness in return? I don’t think Biggirl would have responded that way to you if you hadn’t been so obnoxious with your post.
Who do I think I am? I’m Biggirl, middle-aged black woman about town, that’s who.
And who are you, Kalhoun? Arbiter of the racial insult? Decider of what goes into my OP? interpreter of my rage?
Seriously, what is you major maladjustment?
But afterwards you snarked at the OP, in your post#50:
Dish thou snark not out if thou canst not snark in return take. Yeah, she was kind of snappish about it, but IMO not to any outrageous “you’re-out-of-line-who-the-hell-do-you-think-you-are” extent.
Have you considered that “you people” also could have meant “you young people”? How old was the customer? I assume your daughter is pretty young (as you say she’s in college). I am caucasion and I have been called “you people” by other, elder, caucasions many times in my retail youth. It would still be destestable bigotry, but maybe with not as much impact.
I am probably wrong, but at least it’s a possibility.
And I wouldn’t have responded that way if she didn’t call anyone who didn’t agree with her outrage after the first telling of the tale “naive.” She gave us half the story, and left out the details that would have bolstered the reason for her anger.
If your daughter is anything like me, this will haunt her for a while. I am deeply affected by confrontational people and I remember specific incidents like that for years after it occurred. Your daughter sounds as sweet as a speckled pup, though.
As for the rude lady, she sounds like she needs to spend some time in a padded room. And she owes a debt to society for contributing to racial division.
kalhoun, one of the most irritating aspects of the kind of muted racism described in the OP is when other people suggest that the targets are being over-sensitive or just imagining things. It’s condescending and dismissive. Maybe you should try and give black folks some credit for knowing what’s real and what isn’t.
Actually, I didn’t interpret it that way; I thought she was saying “Okay, fine, here’s the whole story in its whole gory glory, and if after having read it you STILL think that this isn’t about racism, you’ve got to be pretty naive.”
Not “Oh, you’re so naive because you didn’t understand right away that this was about racism”.
Maybe I misinterpreted it. I read it the opposite way.
Feel free to doubt. I held a job in customer service from age 19 to age 37. I was never once referred to as ‘you people.’ I am compelled to ask for a cite.
No. I expect people to give ME more of the benefit of the doubt then some rude racist who made my daughter cry and not have to explain-- step by step, inch by excruciating inch, how it is that some rude woman denigrating my daughter by calling her “you people” was racist. I see I was wrong.
Yeah, we’ve come plenty far.
Why should we not assume that racism does not exist? When did racism magically disappear? Do you not realize, Airman that our generation (we’re around the same age) is the first to be born in a time when all citizens were considered “first class”? My parents were born as “second class” and were raised under “second class” conditions. Their white contemporaries were raised to view them as “second class”. As “niggers”. As “those people”. Do you really think our parents’ (and grandparents’) upbringing has no bearing on how people act today? I recently watched the reairing of Eyes on the Prize and it struck me that most of the people shown in the grainy, black-and-white footage are still alive. Those children being hosed in the streets…alive. The people hosing them down…alive. The people protesting for and against civil rights…ALIVE. There’s no way all of those people “came to Jesus” when Martin Luther King was assassinated. No way.
So no, I’m not going to assume that racism does not exist “to such a great extent”. Such a viewpoint would be dangerous for a member of a stigmitized minority group.
(We aren’t talking about “institutional racism” anyway. We are talking about an individual’s racism. Even if we erradicated all vistages of institutional racism, there’s nothing we could do to “heal” people of their deep-seated prejudices and hostilities. And there’s no question in my mind that a whole HEAP of people are still walking this green earth thinking “nigger, nigger, NIGGER!!” If I ever have children, I’ll raise them to be polite and somewhat trusting of all people, but I will never let them forget that racists dwell amongst them. Sometimes these people drop little clues.)
Not necessarily because of racism or indifference to racism, though. Pit OPs generally get picked over pretty critically, and we have a lot of “self-appointed defense attorneys” (including me sometimes, I must admit) who just like to seize on any possible evidence indicating that the OP’s complaint might be exaggerated or unjustified. Argument tends to be more fun than agreement, after all.
In all seriousness, though, having read the complete dialogue, I completely agree that your daughter’s customer was a raging racist bitchhole, and I’m tremendously impressed by the savoir-faire and professionalism your daughter showed by not rising to the disgusting bait she spewed. You must be very proud of her!
Biggirl, I’m sorry your daughter had to deal with that crappy, putrid, mean-spirited, closed-minded, racist biddy.
Easy. Because that person is behind the wheel of a vehicle with tinted windows, or the sun’s reflection prevents me from seeing them. Because that person is someone on the phone, who I’ve never seen. Because that person bumped into me from behind and I don’t know who it was. Because that person littered at some point when nobody was around to see who did it.
Not to even mention the myriads of people whose race is hard to determine by looking at them, unless you pride yourself on always being able to tell that kind of thing. But then, I don’t have any gaydar, either.
I agree with you Dio.
But I do people are being a bit hard on Kalhoun. She offered a different interpretation of the initial post and said if it was racial it was wrong. I can see why she got a bit angry. No one wants to be accused of being racist if they aren’t, and I definitely don’t think she is. When I read the initial post "you people=racist’ jumped out at me. It didn’t immediately jump out at her until your second post. She said she’s heard people use the term “you people” that wasn’t racist.
I’m not trying to speak for her, but I really don’t think Kalhoun meant to discount your daughters feelings. It’s a pit thread and people like to look at things from all sides.
I feel sincerely sorry that your daughter had to deal with this.
Well, if your trying to convey the tone of the situation, you’re going to have to do better than simply mentioning portions of the exchange that could have been directed at any number of groups of people. That exchange with the customer could have made *anyone * cry. The woman was belligerent and aggressive. Your second post was clearer.
And speaking of clarity, exactly what do you mean by your last sentence here? Who are you directing that at?
At those who insist on saying, in effect: Well, maybe-- just maybe, if you hold it at this angle and the light hits it juuuuust right-- it could be not at all racist.
And I was NOT trying to convey the ‘tone’ of the situation. I was ranting at the racist bitch who made my daughter cry. I think I conveyed my feelings quite well in the OP and I wasn’t looking for any type of special response. I was venting. Had I known that Kalhoun was going to post in the thread and take offense at being called niave—
Nah, I wouldn’t have changed a thing.
Thank you for seeing what I said instead of what some people would like to think I said.