I agree with all those who have said that you should be proud of your daughter Biggirl.
And things are getting better, in that there are fewer overt racists like that customer around than when we were kids.
But there are still too many goddamn apologists for racists around, that’s for sure. This thread, more than any other, (and there have been some doozies) has made me question my decision to subscribe to this message board in the first place.
And neither would I. No one has to hold anything under a special light to see that your original bitch could have been taken any number of ways.
There are no apologists in this thread. That statement has no place in this discussion.
Yes, and when I clarified the point YOU were snide. And when I was snide right back, YOU continued to pitch a bitch and call ME “out of line”.
So this is where we stand now. Care to continue this pointless debate? Because I am. Until bedtime at least.
I agree that Kalhoun wasn’t being belligerent (initially…now is a different matter).
But I knew it was just a matter of time before we’d get posts like Airman’s, featuring insinuations of “oversensitivity” and “race card playing”. In my mind at least, Kalhoun’s posts were setting the stage for this, and I started getting flashbacks to the horrible Michael Richards threads, where the charge of racism couldn’t have been any more obvious and yet people were still refusing to call a duck a duck. It’s this constant denial and rationalization when it comes to racism on the board that makes people, like myself at least, so angry-sounding and militant-appearing.
So while Kalhoun was just offering an alternative perspective, it’s a perspective that I admit is frustrating the hell out of me. Just one little time, I’d like Dopers to stop being so intellectual and argumentative and to actually trust the gut-feelings of another Doper. I know this will never happen, but I can still dream.
[Pull out cell phone. Pretend to dial. Hold to ear.]
"Hi, Bunbury? Hey babe, howya?.. Look, I’m just calling to say I’m going to be a little bit late…Yeah, but I got stuck in a register line behind this crazy lady, and she looks all set to keep screaming for the next half-hour…Oh honey, I’m telling you! Absolutely foaming at the mouth! She found this sweater with a stain on it or something and is yelling at the salesclerk because they don’t have any others…I know! Like it’s her fault or something! Would you believe it? And then she told the clerk to ring it all up on one gift receipt, and then started yelling at her again because she wants the receipts separate!..Oh yeah, completely off the leash…
"And now she’s just reaming out the poor salesclerk because she can’t change the receipt, and get this, she keeps calling her ‘You People’…Yeah, I thought she must be talking to a whole bunch of salesclerks but there’s only one…Yeah, don’t I wish I could be seeing multiple salesclerks at this hour of the morning! I guess some people just manage to make more time for their drinking than we do, eh?..
“Wait, I think maybe she’s winding down now. Golly, what a rhymes-with-witch, huh? I am so going to talk to the manager before I leave to put in a good word for that poor salesclerk who’s being so polite and calm in dealing with such a toxic freakazoid…Oops, it’s actually my turn at the register now, see you soon, bye!”
[Pretend to hang up, put phone away.]
“What’s that you say, ma’am?..Yes, I was speaking to my friend on the telephone…No ma’am, I’m afraid I’m not going to discuss my personal phone conversations with you…Well, you have a nice day, ma’am, and I hope you feel better soon.”
Look…you’re the one that wasn’t clear in either post, and you’re the one that is accusing people (and I’m pretty sure which people, though that is unclear as well), indirectly, of being racist. I’m sorry your daughter had a rough time at work, but it doesn’t change the fact that you did a poor job of conveying exactly what was said at the beginning of your rant. Now, if you want to continue slipping insults under the door, that’s your perogative. If you want to move this to GD or someplace where a more constructive exchange can take place, I’d be more than happy to participate, though I don’t know how much time I can give it tonight.
Another thing I told my daughter to do was, if the YOU people thing ever came up again, was to do something like Kimstu suggested and ask, “Do you mean us salespeople?”
But she’s only a smartass like her mom at home. She’s mostly a quiet, non-confrontational person. I don’t know how she came from my loins.
I did a very clear job of showing what I thought was the problem. It was you who put the “well maybe it * wasn’t* racism” interpretation on the OP. And I am not slipping insults under the door. Again, I am being quite clear on who and what I am insulting. You seem very clear on that aspect of my posts.
Just in case-- the naive. Those who want to look at my original post and spin it in such a way that it seems as if both me and my daughter are being oversensitive-- those are the posters with whom I am taking exception.
[sarcasm] Hey Biggirl, how do you know the mean customer wasn’t just suffering from double vision and thought your daughter was multiple people, huh? I mean, did she not say you PEOPLE, as in plural? That strongly suggests that what was going on was not a case of racism, but rather diplopia. So I think you’re grasping for straws by crying racism (or playing the race card, if that’s your phrase of choice…it certainly is mine!). The bitch could have been drunk and cross-eyed! We just don’t know. We just don’t. [/sarcasm]
But seriously, I’m sorry your kid had to experience that shit. Hopefully her manager was understanding. I’d like to think that if someone said that kind of stuff to me, I’d be sharp enough to come back with a scathing yet cool-headed retort that would make her rue the day she came at me like that, but alas I probably would have cried that your daughter did. Which sucks because worthless individuals like that shouldn’t have the power to get under our skin, but sometimes they do.
I can see several different meanings of ‘YOU people’.
*Regardless * of which was intended, the customer was in the wrong for the way she spoke to **Biggirl’s ** daughter who has every right to be upset.
From your original post:
The two statements could easily be interpreted as being directed toward HOLIDAY HELP. Go fuck yourself.
Now that insult was not slipped under any door, was it?
Sure it could have been interpreted differently— by the naive.
Blah blah blah. I never said anything like that. If Biggirl’s daughter felt that way, she did. I don’t doubt her sincerity. But I never said anything about “oversensitivity” or “race card playing”, and I’d thank you not to attribute those motives to me, and I’d point out that the first instance of the words “race card” can be directly attributed to YOU.
Fine. It was racism. For my part, I will unarguably take someone’s word for it, mindful of the fact that a) I was asked for a cite in this very thread and b) nobody ever takes my word for it. I will accordingly expect that same courtesy in the future.
The OP in no way made clear that there was any racism. Your followup post with more info made the case for racism a lot stronger. No spinning is needed about the OP, as I mentioned earlier I have been refered to as “you people” many times in the 15 years I’ve had to deal with the public in various jobs. I never once felt that they were talking about my race.
I don’t see any reason to believe that I’m being naive or that I’m some sort of racist apologist. I fully agreed that the customer was being a raving, insane bitch. The only part I disagreed about was the possible subject of her raving, insane bitching.
So why didn’t you just ask Biggirl politely to explain why she thought it was a racial matter? I know the reason why your first post in this thread rubbed me the wrong way is because it seemed like your first impulse was to doubt the validity of Biggirl and her daughter’s impressions regarding the customer. Which is all too common when it comes to discussions like this.
If you had simply asked Biggirl to shed some more light on the incident so that you’d have more evidence to go by, yall probably wouldn’t be squabbling right now.
Don’t play coy, AD. You know what “insinuation” means and you know damn well your post was dripping with it. Why else would you think you were going to get in “trouble”?
People who don’t doubt someone’s sincerity do NOT post stuff like the above.
So you can cram your “blah,blah,blahs” up your back-peddling ass.
One thing is for certain, anyone who uses “you people” and directs that comment towards a racial minority that is currently participating in this thread had better be prepared for the recipient to take it as racist.
(I spent four years in retail - occationally getting my ass chewed by unreasonable customers. I never recall them referring to me as “you people” which I also think is racist code. But I grew up in the South where there are LOTS of coded insults, bless your heart.
And Biggirl, I’m sorry your daughter was treated that way and made to feel inferior. I’m not looking forward for the day my son comes home from it - and we white people are going to be much more limited in our ability to really understand.
Hell yeah. And even IF the woman didn’t mean it as such, that’s her problem-she should perhaps learn to communicate better and NOT be such a collassal bitch if she doesn’t want people to think of her as a racist.
Quite frankly, bitching out service employees for things that aren’t their faults cancels one’s right to be given the benefit of the doubt.