In fairness, Stormwatch and other WildStorm comics often go out of their way to piss on these sorts of cheerfully implausible Silver Age-style comic traditions. A list of “Things I have Learnt From WildStorm Comic Books” would be a whole other thread. (#1. Superheroes are evil.)
You just listed all the things I hate the most about the Marvel and DC universe.
Superheroes often have to deal with equally powerful villains, though. For example, Superman is commonly called on to defeat Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Mr. Myxyzptlk, etc. In all fairness, though, it can be argued that Supes seems to attract those same kinds of villains, and is pretty much responsible for them menacing Earth in the first place.
Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot.
However, this general rule is exempted for Vietnam vets, who remain ‘good guys’ no matter how many thousands of people they blow away during their personal vendettas. (See also Mack Bolan: The Executioner and the film career of S. Stallone.)
The Punisher is regarded as a dangerous psychotic murderer by the Marvel Universe heroes.
And yet, there’s been no concerted effort to stop him by said heroes. It amused me that in the JLA/Avengers crossover The Batman took him out off-panel and with no real effort
There was one time Spiderman, Wolverine and someone else (Daredevil?) banded together to try to arrest the Punisher, and he somehow was able to sic the Hulk on them.
That’s because…
… he was ready to do so.
And the dude from the Virgin Islands, well, he just served as a sad example to crimefighters everwhere.
Actually, they’ve tried several times. He’s simply too smart for them. He’s the Marvel equivalent of Batman except with more flexible morals.
Oh yes? Believe it or not, I never realized the Punisher is supposed to be a murderous villain, what with all his comic book series, team-ups, and appearances on the cover of Wizard magazine over the years. Odd that other psychotic murderers like the Joker don’t seem to attract the same treatment.
Come to think of it, I’ve seen the Punisher an awful lot on the various promotional materials for Civil War… I presume that he kept a cockroach-like low profile throughout, to avoid confronting any heroes who routinely battle dangerous psychotic murderers. Or did he actually try to kill those heroes? Oh man, he’s the guy who shot Aunt May, isn’t he? Wait, never mind, don’t spoil it; forget I asked.
Thanks for clearing that up for me, though. Now, when I read comics featuring the Punisher, I will know that he’s supposed to be a bad guy. Though I do find it a bit strange that such a popular comic book villain wasn’t condemned more by veterans’ groups back in the 1980s.
I didn’t say that the Punisher was regarded by the PUBLISHERS as a psychotic criminal, I said he was regarded that way by the heroes. It’s undeniable. If you read Civil War, you’d see where he wound up getting his ass kicked around by Captain America for killing villains, called a psychotic killer. Sorry you missed every single reference to him by Marvel heroes over the last 20 years.
Wait, now you’re saying that there’s a difference between how the publishers regard a character and how other characters regard them? Do you actually mean to suggest that the comics are not intentionally trying to depict the Punisher as evil? That’s crazy talk! As Ranchoth earlier observed: Comics teach us that guns are bad. So how can the Punisher possibly use guns, and not be bad? Your logic is a little bird tweeting in a meadow.
… or if you’re a super team (SuperFriends!), the threat will have multiple facets, each seemingly designed so that a specific member of the team can counter it using his or her unique power. “… and Aquaman, you go … talk to some fish.”
The corollary to this is that if you have one major weakness, every encounter will some how, some way exploit that weakness, regardless of whether the attack was directed specifically at you or not. (Read some early Green Lantern (Hal Jordan). Every damn monster/giant robot/alien invader/runaway military experiment was yellow or used a yellow weapon.)
Do you have a point or are you just arguing to argue?
I think if you interviewed the publishers of the Punisher comic books, they’d tell you that they in no way condone what their character does, that they’re just telling a story, a revenge fantasy a la Death Wish. However, the writers of the rest of Marvel’s superhero comics, when dealing with the Punisher in their mags, all depict him as psycho and a bad guy. You can’t deny that, and you’re looking rather silly trying to.
Yeesh… are you listening to yourself? Why are you copping such an attitude? RikWriter’s just trying to discuss things with you, and write away you immediately jumped all over him. I’m surprised he didn’t give back with his second reply, but your continued hostility only makes you come off looking worse.
I’m not really sure what your point is; it seems to have changed from criticizing the Punisher to invalidating this thread?
For the record, I would agree with RikWriter on Punisher. The comic has always been about an anti-hero, someone who walks the line between hero and villain, with a long-running major theme being to question the protagonist’s own morality. And yes, for the most part, I seem to recall the Punisher being viewed by other characters in the fiction as being something of a dangerous nut. While he’s more or less “on the right side,” making them uninclined to go to great lengths to take him out, he and a number of minor characters who are similarly cut-throat have routinely been met with hostility, mistrust, and sometimes outright opposition by other heroes.
In how the majority of the in-fiction world sees him, the “guns are bad” maxim holds true, but the publishers market him as a character who exists in a moral gray-area, asserting his own righteousness but not necessarily being correct. We root for him because he targets criminals, but part of the appeal is because he’s not some perfect avatar of virtue; he’s someone whose morality we might not always agree with, whose values are sometimes inconsistent, etc.
sigh fricking five minute rule… I always notice things too late to post the edit in time. :mad:
sorry Terrifel, I conflated your responses to Rikwriter with the poster he was originally responding to.
I stand by my assertion that you seem to be giving an awful lot of grief for no real reason, though, and I also maintain my statements about Punisher.
Lastly, please note (for purposes of context) that Rikwriter’s recent statement hadn’t been posted as of the time I wrote my first post. And when writing this my post was still the last in the thread.
Granted. Most of the “rules” mentioned here have exceptions. But an idea doesn’t have to be universal to be a cliche.
He’ll be fine. He just needs a little more experience.
…fighting crime. Get your mind out of the gutter.