Things in Games You Love

Cafe Society
1

Blizzard has been for some time my most favorite game producer. They have decent game plots, decent gaming interface and I love to zerg. BUT the thing that I LOVE about their games that it seems almost nobody does any more is incorporate awesome ingame movies. the Craft games, Diablo 1 and 2 have wonderful movies. Warcraft 3 movies make me cackle. After the end of the human campaign when Arthas has gone evil and he’s marching towards the castle in black, his face shrouded in his hooded cloak, the music in the background pacing him as the unsuspecting citizens throw rose petals down on him…then he bursts open the doors of the throneroom and you can clearly see the armor he’s wearing, and the shinguards have skulls at the knee, he pulls out his sword and when it gets close mist is coming off Frostmourne…MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA.

People that DID good movies, but basically junked them, are the sods who do the D&D games. They had wonderful movies in Baldur’s Gate, but then as Icewind Dale came out and BG2, they settled for the ultra crappy storybook shit, flipping the pages of the book and telling the background of the story…RUBBISH!! Don’t tell it like that, show the battle between the demons and the barbarians and the shaman’s sacrifice to seal the gate letting baddies from the lower planes in!!!

All time favorite in game movie? The final movie sequence of Torment, a game if ANYONE had two brains cells to rub together would have made a sequel to. The game was so fantastic an illiterate monkey could come up with a decent story. Mine being the child of the tiefling and Nameless One venturing into the planes to find her father…I’d even make it possible so you could pick up Jon Irenicus in hell as an NPC, his main goal to escape and get his revenge on ‘that damned Bhaalspawn.’

But what the hell do I know, I’m just an obsessed gamer who only yearns to see sequels of great games (Torment, Clive Barker’s Undying) come to life.

What things in games do you love?

Sanscour

2

I’ve got Soul Calibur II for the Cube. One of the game arenas is high up on a mountain plateau - snow and ice surounds you as you fight.

And as you start working up a sweat you can see the character’s breath in the cold air.

That level of detail just floored me. Indescribably cool as hell. Well, that and being able to play as Link.

3

I started to play Knights of the Old Republic as an evil character. I couldn’t do it…it made me feel like such a bastard. How weird is it to care if NPCs in games live or die?

Baldurs Gate had a similar moment when you had to free a child killer to get out of jail. I did NOT want to let that guy out. In BGII you get to hunt his ass down and finish it. Sweetness. It’s nice to see things carry over to sequels.

System Shock 2…well just about every creepy moment in that game stood out. And some saint released texture packs that updated about 1/2 of the graphics. Too bad he never finished the whole game.

Homeworld. 3d space combat that actually works? Who’d have thought it.

Half Life. I didn’t like FPS before HL. They all turned into boring maze/hunt for key games that I couldn’t STAND after about an hour. HL redefined the genre now there are tons of FPS I like.

Hitman. Bugs -$20, Lack of in Game saves -$50, the joy of entering a level with only fiberwire and clearing it. Priceless.

Fallout 2. Wow I’m used to being the savior of every town I visit in an RPG but depending on how I did what I did actually changes the destiny of the towns I saved/destroyed?

4

Darkhold: the answer would be a person who actually has a strong moral center and realizes that when you rationalize personal brutality and evil because ‘it’s just a game’ you are taking the first steps down the road towards self destruction. I realize it may seem somewhat hoity-toity but I do honestly think that people who are comfortable with the idea of ‘being evil’ within a game environment are really acknowledging that they don’t much care about the ‘idea’ of other people. I must admit that I share your difficulty with ‘being bad’ in games…a perfect example, while playing the ‘Thief’ games I agonized over how to overcome or ‘get past’ virtually every guard or opponent I could. I think I may have had 2 or 3 instances where I seemed to have no choice but do do them in, and did so only after having tried fairly hard to manage the situation without killing. Ironic that in a game rife with such moral ambiguity you can still play the character as someone with distinct moral boundaries.

In addition (as a further example) I completely fail to see the appeal of games like the ‘Grand Theft’ series or utter dementia like ‘Carmageddon’. These are the kinds of games that it seems to me the alarmist ‘Video Games are too violent’ groups can use as real justifications that the industry is messed in the head.

As to the topic…see above…Thief…any number of times the ‘enhancement’ of the story in the cut-scenes was brilliant. In the first game when they gouge out one of Garret’s/your eyes it is honestly shocking and motivating. Great story telling enhancing pretty kick-ass game play.

5

CaptEgo,

Whoa there huckleberry come on back here. Certainly there are sociopath’s out there that use video games as fuel for their fantasies but I think the vast majority of gamers can see the difference between a human being and a bunch of pixels on the screen. It’s when they begin to torture the family pets you have to worry. There’s plenty of games where I enjoy being the antihero Hitman I mentioned in my post. Also I enjoyed being an Evil Character in Disciples II. Warcraft (heck all three of them) etc. That’s what struck me about KOTOR is that I cared about some of these people and they seemed real enough that I felt bad screwing them over. I don’t want to turn this into a debate in someone else’s thread though so I’ll stop…

I do however agree Grand Theft VC sucks. Perhaps that’s b/c I never could get used to the controls in Vice City (the only one I’ve played)

6

DH,

  Righto. Tis a whole different matter but one that bears some examination. My reaction isn't based on an inability to differentiate between a pixel and a person but the moral condition that allows us to say 'it's just a game'.  Messy stuff...maybe best suited to Great Debates.

Back to the topic again. That moment in Half-Life opposing force when you run into a room and watch the radio operator saying “Forget about Freeman…” brought a laugh of genuine amusement (not too mention a choice curse at the wonderful, twisted brains of the development team). Topped moments later by the snarl as you watched through a closed door as the ‘man in the suit’ leaves you stuck and p***ed off.

7

I’m with you Darkhold on the good/evil bit. In games such as Baldur’s Gate 2, when given a choice at the beginning I always prefer to play good characters, it’s just not in me to be evil. However, in games like Disciples 2 where there are linear campaigns where you play evil people, I do enjoy being the bad guy.

As far as the moral ambiguity, a person might be able to make a reasonable debate that people who play evil people with zeal could have less moral boundaries than a person who doesn’t. On the other hand, a person could also make a point that someone who can’t play an ‘evil’ person can’t get past the fact that it’s only a game.

I think what it is to an extent, as far as I’m concerned, is that I don’t like playing evil characters in games like BG or any other highly interactive rpg is that you see the consequences of your actions. The most evil thing I did in BG2 was make a smartass remark to Imoen right at the start of the game and she said something like, “Don’t be like that.” I couldn’t bring myself to be any more of a prick after that.

Speaking of BG2, I enjoyed how after you finished Throne of Bhaal every person in your party at the time had what happened to them afterwards, and the romance characters had 2 different endings, depending on whether or not you became a god. Edwin’s ending was hilarious as hell, and the ending for Viconia if you had a successful romance with her floored me because it WASN’T a happy ending for your character if you stayed mortal: she was poisoned by Lloth and her last words to you was of her eternal love, then you find out your character and your child disappear into the underdark to hunt the drow and are never seen again. It made me sad :frowning: My level 30 something badass spawn of Bhaal gives up Immortality and the ending isn’t happily ever after??? FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!:smiley:

Sanscour

8

[hijack]
That’s interesting.

There’s a webcomic/bloggish place called Penny Arcade, run by a couple gamers, read and visited semi-to-regularly by many many more than a couple gamers. By law of averages–the industry being as messed in the head as it is, of course–a very large percentage of those visitors enjoy rationalizing brutality to people and not caring about the idea of others; i.e., they derive some entertainment out of the occasional violent pixel-based work. The authors of the site and comic are amongst that set.

A few weeks ago, they launched into a sort of charity drive, working with the Seattle Childrens’ Hospital, setting up an Amazon wishlist loaded with toys and games for it; to gift the hospital, and the many injured, sick, and in many cases dying kids that it cares for, with things to reduce the level of boredom and intermittent terror inherent in such a place.

By their most recent update, the elements of their readership have, amongst the toy swag and donations have exceeded thirty thousand dollars and is still climbing.

Which is a fascinating activity and response by so many people who don’t much care about people or suffering.

I had a summary statement, but realized it wouldn’t be at all appropriate outside of the Pit.
[/hijack]

TOPICALLY now: I miss well-rendered cutscenes, too. I really wish the Blizzard folks would slap together a movie like Square did–I suspect the end result would be better than the Final Fantasy movie attempt.

Engaging characters are also a too-rare commodity. Planescape: Torment gets high props for being one of the few games to rouse genuine horror-struck sympathy for many of the characters–I remember having to stop playing for awhile at certain points, such as when Nameless got into a sort of memory vault containing some particularly ugly records of his nastier incarnations.

Well-realized execution in general–Ico is one of my favorites for doing an astonishing lot for really very little. Yorda spoke almost nothing intelligible, and it didn’t matter. It was only after finishing the game the first time that I suddenly realized–the entire game was essentially an “escort mission”…and I’d been utterly gripped by it.

One trend that’s heartening is the increasing trend towards “open-ended” game design. SSX 3 is a terrific little game, and the experience is boosted significantly by simply being able to board freely down one mountain peak to base, and entirely skip the usual pre-set races and stunt courses when you’ve a mind to. Regardless of what one thinks of GTA3 by its own merits, it did a great deal to really slam that sort of design into more action-oriented fare, which is usually lost in a morass of strictly linear mission-by-mission design–if nothing else, by being a powerful demonstration to the marketing heads that open-ended design could actually result in strong sales and move a lot of boxes.

9

CaptEgo,

Even worse (in HL) is when you come to a doorway with two Soliders talking about how they don’t know anything about you other then you’re killing all their buddies. I almost wished I could go up and tell them it was all a bad mistake…I threw grenades instead. Ah the folly of man.

10

[further penny arcade hijack]

What’s astonishing about the Child’s Play drive is not just the amount of money being donated (and in such a short time, too!), but that individuals are purchasing such large items. It’s not just $10 or $30 items rolling in, but $150 and $200+ items by the truckload. Those pictures of stacks of Xboxes, gamecubes and gameboys is incredible.

That’s awesome.

[/hijack]

11

[hijack part 3]

While I’ve got mixed feelings on Penny Arcade (the art is nice, but Tycho and Gabe can be major gonads), I have to admit the Child’s Play charity drive was way classy.

[/hijack part 3]

As for the OP, any pinball game by Littlewing. The ultra-realistic physics and super-complex rules blow away all other computer or video-game pinball titles. Littlewing never fails to take me back to the heyday of Williams’ best pins…

12

One of my favorite places in the world isn’t actually in the world. It’s in Suikoden III. Budehuc castle, on the shore of a nameless lake, flanked by a huge and nicely preserved shipwreck.

I love the adventure of the game, I love the detailed characters, I’m okay with the combat system, but being able to contribute to that castle, to bring people and art and objects back to make it better, makes me feel a part of that world. It’s completely involving.

I love sending big buff characters scurrying across the landscape back to home base because they’ve found a cool hammer that the blacksmith will love. And which will get their weapons up to level 12, too. It’s a game experience unlike any other I’ve had.

And Suikoden 4 is scheduled for US release next fall. Yay!

13

If there is any justice in the world, there will be a sequel to KOTR. Like Baldurs Gate and Planscape: Torment, you got to know these characters, and feel for them as much a character in a movie or book.

 To me this is the mark a a truly great RPG. the abilty to fell as if you are not just playing a game, but participating in a story as it unfolds.
14

In both Thief games, you can finish every level with 100% loot without killing a human (zombies and burricks are another story). Indeed, if you play on “Hard” difficulty, killing someone automatically fails the level.

Dedicated Thief fans brag about “ghosting” the levels – no killing, no knockouts, and never being spotted. (Not me – I’m patient, but not that patient).

15

Disciples II, Warcraft etc are all RTS games that don’t really mean anything when you play the evil side, since there are no choices to be made, unlike KOTOR where it would be more…, personal.
time travel - good games suck you in and toss you out at daybreak before you even realise it.

16

shijinn,

and slaughtering the waiter in Hitman just for his clothes wasn’t a personal choice? There’s tons of ways to beat that level without doing that yet I always find myself behind him with a knife in my hand.

In Age of Wonders (I think) you can decide to help the lizard men or re-enslave some goblins I always enslave the goblins.

In Sacrifice I get a HUGE kick out of playing the Charnel missions. “Death is not the only answer Charnel…”
“Yes torture has it’s merits too”

In Warcraft I & II I hated the Human side I LOVED picking the invade and destory orcs. I think that shows a personal choice.

I’m sure there’s more games where I enjoy being the ‘bad’ guy.

17

i was pointing only to the RTS you mentioned actually, since these are linear.

in fact my favourite example would be one of the jedi knight games - [ul][]there are lots of high places in that game where a wrong footing will have you fall down to certain death. []there are lots of inane npcs wandering around that would swear at you or be generally rude when you try to talk to them, even though you might have rescued them or am pointing a blaster down their throats. [*]there is a jedi force power call ‘push’. [/ul] welcome to the dark side. :slight_smile:

18

One of the most atmospheric games I’ve ever played is XCom (also known as UFO: Enemy Unknown). The graphic detail isn’t up to modern standards, but it still gives me chills.

Anyway, since the conversation has turned to moral dillemas in games … in XCOM terror missions, the team is sent to rescue civilians. The safest thing to do is to go in, autocannons and rocket launchers blazing, and flatten the city. It’s quite a difficult choice risking beloved soldiers just to save the lives of unknown innocents.

I find myself running my own commentary in my head as I play - “Hold your fire man - there are civilians in the line of fire!”
“If I don’t shoot now, they’re dead anyway. I’m taking the shot.”
… and then as the team advances through the smoking debris…
“I’m sorry … I would have saved you if I could …”

The game penalises you quite heavily for dead civilians, but sacrificing squaddies just to rescue monster-bait seems somehow wrong.

19

i used to sacrifice newbie squaddies to keep my veteran soldiers alive, which side of the force would that land me in? (i should add that i don’t go out and send the newbies to die. i just load them up with a nice amount of primed granades… just in case ;))
back to the OP - patches. patches for games that work just fine out of the box. patches to tweak the game, fine-tune the balance, to add additional features years down the road.