Ya know, sometimes 88 is just twice 44.
And quite possibly the Least. Likely. Evah. to inspire neonazi confusions (damn now I miss that old smiley), if one knows them even cursorily.
I’m German and I know about the connotation of 88 and 18. I would expect for younger Germans to know about this, as well - but I think it is a rather recent thing, I have heard about it maybe 10 or 15 years ago. When I see an 88 or 18 in a username, I usually am a little suspicious and will look for further clue. I heard about the connotation of 14 only very recently and it was from an English language source (possibly the SDMB).
The word “Führer” is used in Germany mostly in compound words (Führerschein - driving license, Spielführer - Team captain in soccer). On its own the word “Führer” is sometimes used for a tour guide. It might lead to some sniggering among people, but it is mostly understood to completely harmless. For a “leader” of any sorts the word “Anführer” is used, never “Führer” - still very close, but seemingly different enough.
Hmm. I’ve met tour guides like that, yeah. Makes sense.
Yes, it would be the same as if someone like Mosley had taken power in the UK and was addressed with Hail Leader or Hail Great Leader. After his fall and disgrace (wouldn’t have taken long!) the word leader would still be used in English.
Cromwell, for instance, was the Lord Protector. After he died and the monarchy was restored they dug up his corpse and hung it in chains, his reputation was vilified but the word protector wasn’t suddenly taboo.
I don’t think it’s illegal to own it, but the copyright is owned by the state of Bavaria who have never published it - so it’s illegal to publish it, but because of copyright laws. The copyright expires next year, there’s some debate about whether the law should be altered to make publishing Mein Kampf illegal specifically.
Which also brings to mind another thing ruined by the Nazis in Germany - free speech. In the United States it would be unconstitutional to make, say, holocaust denial or political symbols illegal. Granted those things are odious to civilised peoples, but then popular speech doesn’t need protecting. In Germany such things are criminal offences.
Also Volkswagens.
In some ways almost anything German. I have German heritage but we have to be careful in showing any kind of honor to it so we dont seem like American Nazis.
Silly you, indeed.
Why the dismissive tone? SOME people do use 88 that way. As someone noted earlier, neo-nazis and white supremacists want it both ways - to brag about their hate, but be subtle about it. No other group hides their own agenda while advertising it at the same time as much as they do.
Like Holocaust denial - you’d think those groups would be happy it happened, brag up their ‘success’, as it were. But instead, they’re all “it never happened, but we wouldn’t mind if it did.”
Like pasting a Confederate flag on your Charger. In 1980, it was OK, but now the symbol has been co-opted by the haters. Doesn’t matter if it used to be fine, it isn’t any more. Put an “88” in your user name now and I’ll wonder about your motives. Even if you were born in 1988, do you want that association, even by accident?
I’m bummed out. I never knew about the 88 symbolism. As a member of the class of '88, I’ve used it in various user names because it’s easy to remember that way.
Nope, we use 88 all the time, with no nazi ideas. There’s a new Condo right here in SJ called “The 88”, and there’s a pop/rock/alternative band with that name. etc. No nazi significance at all.
What are you talking about? A higher percentage of Americans claim German ancestry than every other ethnicity/nationality—more than English or Irish, even.
Go to cities with substantial German culture in their histories—Cincinnati, Columbus, St. Louis, Milwaukee, etc.,—and you see plenty of celebration of German heritage and culture, including common display of the (non-Nazi) German flag and colors.
There are entire neighborhoods permanently decorated with German-associated symbols and signage. There is a huge annual Oktoberfest in Cincinnati.
The entire beer culture of the Midwest is explicitly associated with German heritage. (Goebel’s took the step of changing its pronunciation, but they still kept the name. I don’t know of any American beer brand or brewery that had to drop its association with German heritage. Hell, Adolph Coors practically was a neo-Nazi, but he didn’t have to change anything.)
There are plenty of common ways of displaying German heritage in America that people don’t associate with neo-Nazis.
On the other hand, displaying iron crosses, spiked helmets, swastikas, death’s heads, lightning bolts and red-white-black flags (as opposed to black-red-yellow flags) will justifiably draw suspicion.
Even Fraktur is accepted without a second glance, depending on the context.
I know it’s a side topic, but just to lay it to rest, here’s more than you wanted to know about the[ketchup is a vegetable controversy](ketchup is a vegetable controversy). It was political and it was money-related. Any time you combine those two things, you’ve got a good chance of finding stupidity.
Marvel got away with declaring that mutants weren’t human, for import tax purposes, because it was only money-related. If it had been political, too, it would have blown up. (Dolls are taxed at a higher rate than mere figures, such as animals or dinosaurs. Ergo it was worth their while to argue that mutants weren’t human, to get the lower rate on importing X-Men action figures.)
Prussia is a major one. It was a state with a distinct culture and tradition for hundreds of years. While Prussia’s military aristocracy was somewhat aloof to the Nazis, they were happy to benefit from rearmament in the 1930s. After Stalingrad, they turned against Hitler…but too little too late. When the Allies effectively dismembered Prussia and abolished its existence, Prussia died.
Perhaps other German regions, such as Silesia and Sudentenland, also died as a result of Nazi policy. The very suggestion of reviving these regions smacks of Nazism.
I have known many funny Germans, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some types of German humor that Americans just don’t get.
Regarding Germany and their flag: Evil Flag - Scandinavia and the World
(I posted this somewhere else on this board recently as well, but it certainly seemed appropriate here.)
I can’t say I recall ever hearing anybody call the Secret Service the SS.
I’m just going to go out on what is apparently a limb here and say this…
I would never, ever assume just because I saw some random numbers in a person’s username or whatever that they were trying to express themselves in some sort of secret gang code. And, for the life of me, I cannot imagine why anyone to assume that this is the result of ignorance or foolishness. As the saying goes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I didn’t even know about these codes and stuff until the Army gave us a briefing on extremist tattoos.
Now, does that make me a naive and ignorant human being? I don’t think so. I think that just shows I am a normal, sane, and rational person trying to get through their day. Show me someone who goes through life trying to find hidden meanings and symbols in the random bullshit we go through on a daily basis and I’ll show you a very paranoid conspiracy theorist.
So no, I would never assume a set of numbers meant anything for any reason unless the context in which it appeared (tattoos, Stormfront, whatever) gave me reason to suspect otherwise.
Also, I find the idea that patriotism = nationalism = right wing extremism to be utterly vile. It literally makes me sick to my stomach to know that people think that way. You people disgust me. Also, I feel great pity for anyone who lives in a country where patriotism and pride are perceived as right wing extremism. That is a sad way to live.
Ethnocentric, much ? We have different cultures, with different outlooks and customs. It’s OK. Deep breaths ;).
I don’t think I’m any more ethnocentric than the various Germans that have been described coming to America and being freaked out by our customary displays of patriotism or posters that assume that I’m some kind of horrible right-wing extremist bigot because I am proud of my country.
Also, going back to the stupid 88 thing…
[QUOTE=Just Asking Questions]
Even if you were born in 1988, do you want that association, even by accident?
[/QUOTE]
Why should I give a flying fuck?
Let me examine your train of logic… Random racist asshole, somewhere, in some country, whom I have never met nor heard of and have no desire to do either, comes up with a secret code so that his prison buddies can identify what gang they’re in. So that means I, who have no knowledge of or connection to said asshole, have to go through my life worrying that Random Internet Person might view my username and, with no other evidence whatsoever, infer a relationship that does not in fact exist.
Let me also make a list of every color that has ever been used as a gang color so that I don’t accidentally wear a tie with that color and have someone assume I’m a Blood or a Crip. And God forbid I wear my tan shirt with black pants, because it might offend some random Irish person I see on the street.
Or I can just get on with my fucking life and worry about my real problems.
I guess there is one silver lining here:
If you are so judgmental and paranoid that you would make negative assumptions about me based on random and arbitrary numbers that some criminal somewhere thought would make a cool secret code, then you are probably not the kind of person I want to associate with anyway, and good riddance for it.
Who did ? Because if you’re talking about me, I said I’d feel that way about a (presumably) French person waving a French flag. Because I know French culture and mores, and I know the Front and its fellow travellers. And because we simply don’t routinely wave flags about outside of a narrow set of contexts, nor proudly display them on our apparel. So when “we” do there’s usually a reason for it.
That doesn’t mean you can extrapolate from this that I think the same about every person from every country waving their own flags. I am aware that e.g. Americans can be pretty rah-rah in general, and y’all have a thing about your flag. As I said, it’s OK. Weird to me in a culture shock kind of way, but OK. I don’t think less of y’all for it. Different strokes.
I certainly wouldn’t write stuff like “I pity people who live in a country where patriotism is on open display, that is utterly vile and a sad way to live” :rolleyes:. Because *that *might come off as a little ethnocentric of me ;).
(And FTR I love my stupid, insular, myopic, xenophobic France to bits. I often dislike my fellow Frenchmen and when I hear the word “patriotism” I reach for my gun (:p); but it’s a great place to live and I wouldn’t move to another country for a big clock. I just don’t feel a particular compulsion to state it in public in any way, shape or form.)