Think About This, You Anti-gun Idiots

The BBQ Pit
21

You mean, the same organization that tirelessly lobbied for plastic handguns, cop-killer bullets, and the like? Yeah, they’re a great source of unbiased information, I’m sure. They’re ‘educational’, all right.

Because of the same reason that government can’t enforce a whole bunch of laws: conservatives decided to make sure the money wasn’t there. People fall into vats of chemicals and die, or get burned up in a workplace fire, or have their hands and wrists permanently damaged while processing chicken, because there’s one OSHA inspector for every few thousand factories. But somehow the government’s supposed to magically have the resources to enforce all its gun laws. Whatever you say.

22

Lately, a line of argument has persistently appeared on gun threads: guns kill less people than X, so why are we worried about guns?

Klaatu’s premise here is that of a woman unable to protect her life from an attack by a stranger, because she talked her husband out of buying that handgun.

While I agree that it’s unfortunate that anyone has to die at the hands of anyone else, you know how often Klaatu’s scenario - a woman getting killed by a stranger - happened in the US in 1997?

137 times. That’s all. 137 times.

A woman has about the same chance of being struck by lightning. OTOH, if she and hubby have that gun, she’s way more likely to be shot by hubby. And her kids are more likely to be killed by the gun: 142 kids under 15 got killed in gun accidents in 1997.

IMO, it’s too bad the husband didn’t install a heavy-duty door with a deadbolt at the top of the stairs, and a phone in the bedroom. Noise downstairs? He flips the bolt, makes sure the kids are upstairs in bed, and decides what to do next. Maybe he has the wife call 911, or a neighbor. Maybe he just listens a bit more. Maybe he uses whatever emergency ladder he has to get the family out of the second floor in case of fire to go out the window and, once on the ground, look for signs of forced entry.

There are lots of things one can do to make one’s house safer from intruders that don’t increase the danger to oneself one iota. There are alarm systems, motion-sensitive lights, and all sorts of high-tech stuff - and, these days, most of it’s pretty cheap. (Not to mention low-tech remedies like doors and phones.) If Mr. Slasher steps into my yard, and the floodlights go on, chances are overwhelming that he’s gone again. That’s 'way cheaper than a gun, and the likelihood that my kid and the kid next door would fool around with the floodlight, with one of them killing the other, is zero.

Enough of voting for the lesser of evils - vote Cthulhu 2000!

23

RTFirefly:

Are these magic bullets that have the unaided ability to seek out and ‘kill cops’?
Wow! Maybe we could also apply this technology to producing ‘criminal killer’ bullets.

24

Klaatu - This issue is not black and white. There are good arguements for both sides on this one. Take one of the good arguments against guns seriously for an hour or two. Find an anti-gun argument that you agree with. Then reconsider your pro-gun stance. Likely it will make your pro-gun arguments even stronger and more logical (and you might learn about how other people feel without thinking they are idiots because they are not like you).

CABoom - Cop killer bullets are not magical. They are designed specifically to pierce bullet proof vests worn by police.

25

The real question arising from the OP is not “what if they had had a gun?” but “how did the intruder get in?”.

The kind of scenario which is described (deranged killer/rapist breaks into house occupied by multiple people in the middle of the night) is very rare indeed, even in the UK where we do not have the right to own guns.

The reason is that most people take appropriate passive, defensive security precautions such as fitting decent door and window locks, exterior lights, security system, accessible telephones, etc., as appropriate. They do not need guns to defend themselves from deranged intruders in their homes because it wouldn’t get that far.

I could invent an equally lurid tale in which the little girls discover the gun and one of them blows the other’s head off. That wouldn’t prove anything either.

26

I read about a security feature that is popular in African cities. I can’t remember which city it was in, Nairobi or the capital of Zimbabwe. Anyway, in wealthy homes there is a metal security vault with communication facilities, water, guns, survival gear not for a long period of time;just for the period of time it might take the authorities to arrive. The drill is for the family to assemble in the vault at any sign of break-in or riot.

The reason this isn’t in homes in North America? It isn’t that dangerous here. Although who’s to say some very wealthy people, particularly pop culture stars, may have already picked up this security feature.

If there were only about a hundred and fifty women killed annually by strangers, out of the three hundred odd teeming millions scattered over North America, then the odds of one being killed by an insane “goofy guy” or “weird dude” (note correct spelling of weird) hunting with a knife for little girls, is slim to almost none. Klaatu’s hypothetical situation, as justification for handguns at ready in the home, is not a reasonable argument.

The Antigun faction rules. Look around the world. Britain, Mexico, Canada, have strict gun laws and a lot less deaths from firearms. It’s only a matter of time for the citizens of the USA to disarm. I admire the Swiss system, where every male citizen is conscripted into the military and thereafter keeps his military weapon at home. Is that still the law there? This wouldn’t be practical in North America because there is no threat of invasion.

Anyway, this is the pit so, Klaatu, your dog don’t hunt.

27

I would like the low-down on the cop-killer bullets also.

Do you just go into the gun store and say:

“Can I have a box of cop-killers?”

And what the hell is up with the plastic gun thing? Could you please give me the name of ONE gun that is all plastic?

28

Per:

Any bullet fired from a rifle will do this.
What’s your point?

29

Hey CalifBoomer!

How about reading the posts before reacting, dumbass!

This isn’t a thread about the 2d amendment, or government trying to take away your God-given right to have as many guns as you want.

The OP was a crudely drawn parable designed to convince people that their homes would be safer if they owned guns. This is demonstrably false. Maybe (just maybe) you are safer in your home with a gun if someone breaks in intending to harm you. But this additional measure of safety is far outweighed by the added danger the gun’s presence creates.

You want to own guns? Fine, knock yourself out (Please!). Just don’t try to tell me having a gun in the house makes me and my children safer.

Oh yeah, and shouldn’t your name be Gort?

Plunging like stones from a slingshot on Mars.

30

I’ve always felt that since so many gun owners claim they have the right to bear arms since the 2nd Amendment allows for a regulated militia, that perhaps each gun license should come with a few months of boot camp and a couple years of military training. I’d hate to think my state militia is going to break up into chaos come the first war just because it’s made up of home owners, hunters, drug runners, criminals and collectors who have no battle training. I mean, sure they might be all that keeps us from the tyranny of a government turned evil, but can they really hold their own against the U.S. Army? Or the armed forces of Kenya for that matter?

I say train them gun owners until they’re doing their job!

“I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn’t.”

31

Frankd6:

Suggest you post that quote in large letters on your front door.

32

A far more likely scenario than illustrated in the OP;

The children in this example family saying to their friends…

“Wanna see something cool? I know where my Dad keeps the key to his gun cabinet!”

33

Here is the sign for your lawn:

http://www.frii.com/~buchanan/hgc/sign01.gif

:slight_smile:

34

Geez, Freedom, just go through the back issues of the NRA house rag.

No, they’re not all plastic. But back in the '80s, technology had advanced to the point that guns could be made with so little metal that metal detectors wouldn’t pick them up on normal settings.

They’re referred to as ‘plastic handguns’ as a shorthand for ‘guns that are almost, but not quite, all plastic, and can frequently escape detection by metal detectors.’

35

Klaatu: You are clearly an asshole, but I have to admit that you are correct. It is indeed true that if you’ve got a gun in the bedroom, you’re unlikely to be raped or murdered there.

But, did you know that compared to those who don’t have a gun nearby, there is a literally 100-fold increase in the chance that you’ll be murdered, murder somone, or kill yourself with it? So to avoid the 1 in 100,000 chance of being raped, you’ll accept a 1 in 1,000 chance of someone, maybe you, dieing.

Hooray for the NRA! Yeah, right.

36

I will stand by my OP. As far as the kid in Michigan, as was pointed out by another poster, there are dozens, if not hundreds of gun laws THAT AREN’T ENFORCED NOW! So more laws will make a difference…Bullshit!
(Not to mention the kid was living in a fucking crackhouse, where were the cops on that?)

My OP was stated to point out a legitimate use of a gun by a law abiding citizen to prevent a heinous crime.

Some of you ladies have said “I will never own a gun no matter what”

Fine, but put yourself in my OP, right where I left off, and tell me, if you had a gun in the house you wouldn’t shoot that psycho fuck before he got to your daughters.

And RT, thanks for the stats, I will accept your numbers…so what…

How often do you get in a car wreck?
I bet you still carry insurance.

IOW, out of tens of millions of law abiding gun owners in this country, 145 kids got shot that year. While that is tragic, it is hardly an epidemic.

Other posters have stated that a gun wouldnt help in my OP situation. Wrong. A person properly trained in use of firearms will rapidly stop the situation from escalating.

Well maybe it wouldnt for some of these assholes that buy a gun, dont learn how to use it, and stick it in the nightstand.

Oh, shit, maybe they are the same idiots that dont secure their weapons, and let kids find them…

I agree with most gun laws. I am not a “crazy gun freak” but I will never let the gov take away my right to defend my family.

37

Gads. The “he says, she says” debate rages on, without regard for the facts . . .

I just wanted to let CalifBoomer know that any bullet fired by a rifle will not violate a protective vest. And point out to RT that so called ‘cop-killer’ bullets (that can violate a vest) were not developed by some diabolical NRA maniac bent on uprooting democracy, but by the government.

Both sides of this argument are overly fond of creating and/or misusing ‘statistics’ to create ‘likelihoods’ of this or that in order to bolster their arguments. Both sides miss the point. Guns exist. They exist for many reasons, and have been employed in many causes, both tragic and noble. Often what has been seen as noble by one has been tragic for another.

It is likely that the first tool ever employed by our ancient forebears was a conveniently situated stick or rock that could be used as a weapon of necessity against a predator. The sophistication of weapons themselves has increased, but the psychology of their use has not.

To argue that countries that ban guns have no gun violence is to argue that a society that bans cars would have no traffic accidents. Those countries are not inherently more noble, and have only a different sort of violent crime and a different sort of accident involving different weapons and means of transportation.

I have plenty of guns, and am currently teaching my 7 year-old son the proper use, storage, and handling of them, and when my 4 year-old daughter grows a bit I’ll teach her the same. In a few years I’ll also be teaching them the proper use and handling of motor vehicles, a prospect I find a bit more frightening, considering that rather more people are killed by and because of motor vehicles. But I can deny the reality, presence, and danger of neither guns nor vehicles to my children; nor thousands of other things that can be deadly if misused. I can only try to teach them patience, level-headedness, and responsibility.

The fella from OSHA that yelled at me last week because he caught one of my guys behaving like an idiot at the top of a thirty foot ladder quoted me the chapter and verse concerning injuries and fatalities resulting from this kind of thing. Not once did he suggest outlawing ladders.

Dr. Watson
“Future Imperfect? I thought that was a past tense.”

38

Dr Watson,
Thank you for injecting a calm and reasoned
response into this mess…

However, since it’s getting late, and this is the Pit, screw you anyway…

39

Dr. Watson:

Ok, Doc. You don the kevlar. Stand about 200 yards out. I’ll squeeze on off the old A303…

'Ya know what–I forget to tell you to bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. You’re dead.

40

If I owned a gun, yes, I would shoot that psycho fuck before he got to my daughter. However, I do not own a gun. So, I’ll try something else. Anything else. You don’t mention whether or not the intruder has a gun. You say he has a knife. If that’s all he’s got, well, those knitting needles might just do the job. But, if something like the OP ever happened to me, you can bet the headline would NOT read : “Woman dies because she didn’t own a gun.” No. It would read: “Crazed maniac kills local family,” thus placing the blame squarely where it belongs, on the psycho fuck that broke in to my house.
HOWEVER: I live in Michigan. I live very, very close to where Kayla Rolland was shot last week. I do not believe it was the fault of the gun. A gun is an inanimate object. It’s the fault of the irresponsible whackos who do not obey the gun laws. I ** absolutely believe in your right to own a gun,** legally and safely. But the law does not state that everyone must be armed. It is an option, one that I choose not to exercise.

This space blank, until Wally thinks up something cool to put here.