Thinking about building my own gaming computer. So many questions

The Game Room
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80C seems toasty and he doesn’t mention his GPU temps at all. It’s actually easier for me to keep my CPU temps down with an AIO since I can move the radiator/fans to where the fresh air is while the GPU is stuck working with whatever air it has inside the case (unless the video card is also water cooled, of course). Even worse if the AIO fans are taking cool outside air and pumping it into the case to cool the radiator and consequently bathing the GPU in pre-warmed air.

The temp issue in my old case wasn’t the CPU so much as the 3080 running at close to throttling temps when gaming. But, yes, the RTX 3080 runs about 10C hotter than the RTX 2080.

I suspect that there isn’t much of a market for silent low-powered machines because most people who would be happy with a low power machine aren’t the sort to also seek out system builders. There’s exceptions, of course, but I assume most people who are hitting up those sites are looking for performance first balanced by adequate noise reduction.

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I think you’re right.

103

But wait, are you saying that Amazon review guy’s system was a low-power system in January of 2019?

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FWIW, I am currently running a be quiet! Dark Rock 4 on a Ryzen 3700X an X570 board. This is my second be quiet! cooler, my previous build was an I7 4790K with the Dark Rock 3.

be quiet! makes great coolers.

And yes, for anyone about to critique my upgrade path, the uplift wasn’t stupendous in terms of single thread CPU, ~20-~25% at most. :slight_smile:
I do see benefits in ARMA 3 and overall system performance, plus one day when the Ryzen 5800X or 5900Xs are available on a Boxing day sale, one of them will plug right in!

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No. I’m saying that I have no idea (aside from his self reporting) on how well it handled or what the actual thermals were. Reviews I’ve seen for the case give it middling results for heat, especially at the GPU. This is telling because the Amazon reviewer only listed his CPU temp (which makes sense since it’s a review for an AIO cooler). But a good AIO radiator can actually make things worse for the GPU in a tight or closed case since the GPU is getting bathed in warm radiator air if you’re blowing cool air through the radiator into the case (or sacrifice radiator performance by “cooling” it as an exhaust). I wouldn’t take his review as any indication that the case is great for performance builds and reviews I’ve seen specifically of the case suggest that it’s a perfectly fine case on its own merits but lacks the sort of airflow and cooling you’d want for hot components. Gamers Nexus recommends removing the drive case and installing more fans. An Anantech review had it running “pretty warm”… with a GTX 560 Ti. Bit-Tech said that it cooled well with the fans running full bore but then it was also noticeably noisier. Again, these are reviews from 2013-2016 involving lower powered cards than the 3000 RTX series.

None of this is really a knock against the case. You’re not going to find a case that’s all things to everyone and this case seems good for keeping things quiet which comes at the expense of thermals.

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Air cooler, not AIO. (He’s reviewing the dark rock slim air cooler) That’s an irrelevant nitpick that doesn’t contradict anything you wrote, all of which I agree with.

What I’m getting at is that you can min/max your thermals with a mesh case and water cooling, or you can sacrifice some thermal performance for other things. Even with a top of the line bleeding edge machine, a person could defensibly make some thermal trade-offs for reasons other than performance.

One example from Omni’s link above is the high end “quiet” system that comes with a tempered glass front panel instead of mesh. Solid front is solid front; you’re sacrificing the same airflow regardless whether it’s to look cool or to dampen sound. Being a thermally-challenged case isn’t a deal-breaker in and of itself.

To clarify, I’m not worried about the case I bought. My not-overclocked no-video-card system shouldn’t have even a hint of thermal issues for now. I’m also not arguing with you or even disagreeing with any of your points.

It’s just weird to me that there don’t seem to be any prebuild shops that offer actual silence builds despite most or all of them touting “quiet.” It’s not because of thermals, or if so it’s a standard inconsistently applied.

My best guess at a GQ-style answer is that as a prebuild seller, it would be hard to convince fractal to authorize me as a reseller if the plan was to swap out their stock fans for bequiet fans. As I type this I’m thinking back and I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a prebuild shop let me customize the case fans. MicroCenter maybe, but that’s a full-build shop, not just a prebuild shop offering a handful of choices for each part.

I do think there would be a market for it, so that’s why I find it odd that nobody offers it. If I could have bought my not-unusual-at-all build (you could say “template” build, even) from a prebuild shop for $300 more than the cost of the parts, I very well might have.

Then again, it’s entirely possible that there’s only like 30 people in the world who have a similar home build and 20 of them posted parts reviews so it looks to me like a whole movement when it’s really nobody. That’s probably the answer, but it definitely isn’t because of thermals.

Of maybe Fractal being just a small shop in Sweden (same for bequiet but in Germany) makes it tough to hook them up to a US-based prebuild shop? I do notice that the only things I had to pay shipping for on Newegg were the fractal case (but it’s big and heavy so no surprise there) and the bequiet case fans. In fact, I ordered the bequiet case fans as part of a combo order with the motherboard and ram, then Newegg split the order in two on their end, separating out the bequiet fans to their own order and charging shipping on just those. Tracking says it’s originating in the US, though, so it’s not like they’re flying in directly from Germany. (EDIT: Also the bequiet cooler. Newegg was charging $8 to ship it so I bought it on Amazon for $5 more but free shipping.)

Or maybe the less likely but not strictly impossible explanation is the true answer: Shops keep trying but the finished rigs emit evil sound that drives the workers insane before they can ship them out.

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We agree there. Although I’d add that thermals go hand in hand with system performance since the things that generate heat in your system are the things making the magic happen.

That doesn’t surprise me. I think most people who would seek out system builders are content with “quiet enough” versus “silent”. Obviously sometimes you might have someone who wants “silent” but not enough to warrant stocking the parts or dealing with people who complain that it wasn’t silent enough. Maybe I’m wrong here but I think the simple answer is “Not enough people care enough to make it worth the closet space and it’s too much hassle appealing to the percentage who do care because some of them will care more than is practical for other system considerations.”

Easier to just vaguely say “quiet” or “low noise”, etc.

108

Agreed. Further, I think the kind of person who would build a true silence build is also the kind of person who would post detailed parts lists as customer reviews.

Been doing some benchmarks in anticipation of comparing the current system to the new one. 4:50 to power on fully so that the hard drive stops thrashing. Even worse, if I put it to sleep at night and wake it up the next morning, it takes 1:45 for the hard drive to stop thrashing just from waking up.

I can use the computer while the hard drive is thrashing. It’s slow, but functional. But still, almost 2 minutes just to fully wake up? That’s nuts.

109

What should I do about static? Building room has wall to wall carpet, it’s the middle of winter, and the case is 100% painted.

Any thoughts?

110

I kind of want to make my own grounding cord as detailed in this post on gamernexus:

Then plugging it in and connecting an ankle strap to it. Reviews overwhelming report that the wrist strap coming with my arctic silver 5 is so small it barely fits the wrist of a child, so I don’t think that can be repurposed as an ankle strap.

Super dry here in the winter, full carpeting, I get shocks when I touch anything.

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It’s not exactly cheap, but speaking from experience these can get pretty quiet. Quiet enough? Judgement call, as always.

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Clearly my research was incomplete, as this is exactly what I was imagining. Great find, thanks!

Tinkering around, it lets me come very close to my exact choices on just about everything. The smaller case lines are locked into the Fractal Mini C, which is the 2016 version of my Define 7 Compact. A little long in the tooth, but plenty close enough to satisfy my rhetorical question. But the ultimate is this checkbox they offer:

Quiet Case Fans Upgrade Kit (PWM) $85.70

Ha! I’m wondering why nobody lets you pair a fractal case with quiet fans on a prebuild, and there you go, somebody does. They go with noctua case fans and cpu air cooler; I envisioned a choice between bequiet or noctua, with bequiet being the budget version. This counts as what I was picturing almost exactly.

If I go through and pick the closest thing to my choices for all the components, I frequently get either my first choice or something better. They don’t let me aggressively cheap out on the cpu and ram, with the minimum choices being i7 10700F (nice!) and 32GB of Corsair DDR4 3200. (solid) But like all other prebuild shops, hard drives are the real killer: $180 extra to bump the default 500GB C: Drive (Samsung evo 860 ssd) to a 1TB M.2 (Samsung 970 evo), and then another $460 to add a 2TB samsung 860 evo 2.5" ssd as a d: drive. That’s an extra $640 on drives alone. Ouch.

So their equivalent to my choices is much faster (and possibly quieter) than mine will be, but costs $2674.16. After penciling in $140 for the full retail version of Windows 10 Home (I think I want it tied to a live account instead of the motherboard), my home build totals $1460. Almost full half off “list” price and I get a modern case with good front ports, but slow. Note that for the prebuild, I chose the “no video card” option, just using the onboard chipset exactly like my home build. It was still $2700 thanks to the faster cpu and expensive hard drives.

This makes me happy, both that such a prebuild shop exists, and that the prebuild version of my home build would cost almost twice as much as I’m spending, albeit would be much more powerful. I rarely need the power but I’m always annoyed by these loud fans.

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IMHO the SSDs alone make a fairly big difference just in of themselves. Upgrading from a really old computer with a dying motherboard a couple of years ago really brought that home for me. But fan-wise one thing to note with that particular premium build is that one of the things you are paying for is hand-tuned fans. You can absolutely do that yourself using the same or similar software tools, but I’m guessing you won’t have the benefit of their thermal imaging camera :wink: . Anecdotally theirs only seem to rev up after either a very extended period of gaming with a somewhat graphically intense engine or for some reason about 13 seconds after you start Diablo III :smile:.

At that point the computer definitely ceases to be absolutely silent. But it’s still quieter.

114

You’re getting me hyped up over here. I’m like a kid waiting for Christmas.

Almost everything has arrived, nothing unboxed yet. Now just waiting for the psu and case, both scheduled to arrive Tuesday. For extra tension, it’s supposed to start snowing here Sunday night and keep snowing through Tuesday morning, or it could miss us entirely or even just end up being rain. (It’s 15 degrees right now.) Hopefully my Tuesday packages (both coming from California to Connecticut) don’t get delayed. The suspense!

I’ve been obsessively watching countless youtube videos about building your own computer. How obsessively, you ask? After having watched many videos from both Jay and Steve, I watched all two hours of the following competition between them. Not only did I not fast forward at any time – I actually rewound in a few places – I was riveted the entire time, as if watching a good NFL game. I even read a bunch of the youtube comments afterward. I may need help.

On the plus side, I understood all the sabotage and how and why they were issues. Except some of the bios minutia, but as Steve demonstrates, there’s a quick fix for that.

Just dug out an old, unused 32GB USB 3.0 flash drive I had laying around and it just now finished becoming bootable Windows installation and repair media. Think I’ll go ahead and download the drivers for my new system to it while I’m at it.

Is it Tuesday yet? How about now? Now?

115

Just realized that the logitech wireless mouse and keyboard I buy at walmart for $20 could be a problem. (walmart link)

When I first assemble my computer and get ready to power it on for the first time, how exactly will the computer see the wireless mouse and keyboard? Do I need a wired keyboard for the first boot?

I haven’t owned a wired keyboard or mouse in years, and there are none in the house.

Also, that snowstorm coming in tonight is now forecast to be 18" where I am, and the storm itself apparently spans from Pennsylvania to Boston. Yikes.

116

It’ll probably be fine. The wireless adapter is often simulating a USB mouse and keyboard to the system rather than providing wireless communications for the OS. My Microsoft wireless keyboard doesn’t have any issues accessing the BIOS/UEFI. I doubt Logitech is doing something radically different.

If it was a Bluetooth mouse or keyboard that connected directly to the system’s Bluetooth radio (more common for laptops), then you’d be in trouble.

117

Yeah, my slim Googling suggests that it should be okay because the keyboard and Logitech dongle already know how to communicate and the dongle knows to send the information to the computer via standard interface. If it was a generic Bluetooth keyboard, you’d need to get drivers first but the Logitech equipment knows what it’s doing.

Worst case scenario, pop down to Goodwill and buy a $3 Microsoft essentials keyboard off the rack to use once and then toss in your closet. But I wouldn’t bother until you had to since you probably won’t.

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Don’t build directly on the carpet, obviously.

I’ve never used a grounding strap; I usually find a grounding point and setup my build station next to it then touch it before I touch any component I’m working on. Any piece of metal you can shock yourself on after you shuffle your feet will work.

If all else fails you can plug the PSU into the wall but leave it turned off. While it is plugged in touching the bare metal on the PSU will discharge static.

119

Ah, that’s a clever way for them to work, I should be good then. Thanks much.

I had been planning on using the wrist strap that came with the thermal paste, installing the psu first and plugging it in (but turned off) and then screwing a riser into one of the screw holes holding the psu in to clip the wrist strap to. (Everything else is painted.) And because the room is carpeted, I was planning on jeans, cotton t-shirt, no socks.

I’m abandoning that plan for several* reasons. First, brrrrrr! I’d be shivering the whole time. Second, and more importantly, my “work table” isn’t very sturdy. (The table from this 3-piece dinette on amazon.) I wouldn’t dream of trying to sit on it and I’m only 175 lbs. My understanding is the finished computer will weight a solid 40 pounds, and I don’t really trust the table to stand up to flipping the computer on it’s side and spinning it around while I put it together. The several hours I spent completely cleaning out that room appears to have been for naught.

Instead, I’m going with a more awkward location, but it’s way better: hardwood floor next to a power outlet, which should be within arm’s reach of where I’ll be working. I’m thinking I’ll assemble it directly on the floor, or possibly on a layer of cardboard on the floor to protect against scratches. (The box the case comes in should be perfect for a “mat”, unless cardboard is a static-y material?)

I’ll probably end up grounding myself with the screw on the outlet’s face plate every 30 seconds like a mental patient, but it should make static a non-issue.

So this snowstorm is apparently officially a nor-easter, and seems to stretch from Detroit to Boston and as far south as DC. Given that, UPS tracking seems utterly insane to me. Both the case and psu were scheduled for end of day tomorrow, which is bad enough. Snow’s supposed to continue through tomorrow into the morning of the next day. But what’s really insane is that the tracking for the psu updated today and now says it’s expected to be delivered by end of day today! What are they, nuts? They better not, as it’ll end up lost in a snowdrift. There’s easily half a foot outside right now.

EDIT: *The third reason (to me several = three) is that I don’t really want the psu screwed into the case until the very end, and certainly not plugged into anything. It would just make it heavier and more awkward. I wanna be able to reposition the case at-will as I work.

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Working on cardboard is fine. Using the motherboard box as a place to set your motherboard during CPU/RAM installation is a time-honored technique.