But it’s by popular demand. Diddums need a pwillow in case that nasty old door bruises your tender widdle ass???
You’re right, that’s just low.
You mean something actually tapped that garbage disposal?
(Haven’t you assholes heard of draino?)
Not weird at all. You know we disagree on the fundamentals of how absolute individual liberties are. Perhaps I’m mistaken with my support of individual liberties as they are understood in the US. I’ve been wrong before.
There has been exactly ONE guy with a bike lock. The famous “based stickman”------or both of them, rather-----are both rightwing. James Fields, Jr. murdered Heather Heyer with a Dodge Challenger.
Please address the specific things I pointed out. You focused your criticism on the victim by pointing out violence would happen. The implication is that she should have known there would be violence and the onus was on her to avoid something that “was and did happen”
Your side is noticeably more violent and deadly than the left. That means you cannot feign neutrality. To say she was at a place “where mob violence was or did happen–” instead of “James Fields, Jr., a rightwinger, murdered her,” is to conceal the actual facts of the murder…which make your side look had because they ARE bad. One side attacking the other side and that second group fighting back are in no way equal, but you lump attackers and targets together in one group with “mob violence.” This conceals that the rightwing planned to attack the left----and did. It tries to make attackers and their victims morally indistinguisable.
Yeah, after the “bikelocks, sticks, and Dodge Challenger” lie I’m done. You’re lying now. Screw that.
You’re walking down the street when you encounter a some antifa coming out of a beer hall. Do you have anything to fear?
You’re walking down the street when you encounter some fascists coming out of a beer hall. Do you have anything to fear?
You’re being threatened by fascists. Are you better off or worse off if a group of antifa enter the scene? Is it reasonable to expect that antifa would come to your aid?
You’re being threatened by antifa. Are you better off or worse off if a group of fascists enter the scene? Is it reasonable to expect a group of fascists will come to your aid?
Explain your answers.
When political violence is acceptable and apologized for don’t act surprised, shocked, or concerned when it doesn’t go the way you hope. I dislike all political violence in the modern USA. There is no need for it and it is extraordinarily counterproductive. Repeating false information when I’m clear that I’m opposed to violence is a bad look for the hive. Please stop.
See we can converse like adults!
Ok. answer 1-4 with explanations.
For one I’m very obviously white and I don’t LARP as antifa or a Nazi. I am going to go with obvious Nazis as what is meant by fascist. Not just a MAGA hat wearing old lady in a wheelchair.
So in a sense I do have a bit of white privilege with regards to being a target of a random attack by Nazis. But let’s say they are looking for a fight regardless of color so as to not dispute the hypothetical.
- Drunk rowdy antifa while not doing anything provocative? Probably relatively safe and probably not going to be a problem if I work to deescalate any potential problem.
- Drunk rowdy, swastika covered Nazis? Yeah… I ain’t going near that bunch. They sound crazy.
- Depends on numbers.
- Depends on numbers and how many of them are willing to go to jail on murder charges.
Yeah on a per number basis I think the most radical of a group are the most dangerous and I think actual Nazis are more radical than the average antifa.
Yknow when Antifa typically shows up? When a community says, “can we please prevent this gathering of violent fascists and fascist-adjacent people from happening in our town?” and the cops say “LOL no, we like those guys”. It is community self-defense, to prevent violence and “protect and serve” when the police won’t (and are more often on the side of the violent, dangerous fascists).
Then, when neo-nazi mobs inevitably bring violence to the city, the right-wing propaganda machine goes into overdrive, blaming every bit of violence, regardless of how clearly it was in self-defense, on the nebulous “antifa”. Sometimes, they write the “violent antifa” story while coordinating with alt-right gangs. There’s a reason that people keep saying that Andy Ngo is a threat to the community and provides kill lists to Atomwaffen (literally a neo-nazi hit squad) - because he does. While writing about how violent Antifa is.
Do you know why antifascists wear masks? It’s because if the people they’re pushing back against know who they are, they will literally fucking kill them. Fighting monsters is dangerous. Just recently, Emily Gorcenski (a prominent antifascist reporter) reported that, after direct death threats, a member of Atomwaffen was turned away at the Berlin Airport - where she had moved after neo-nazi threats chased her out of her old hometown of Charlottesville.
Stop swallowing and enabling right-wing propaganda and start pushing back against it. Anti-antifascist is pro-fascist.
I try to remind myself that every life is a unique work of art worth preserving… But punching nazis is just good praxis.
Also, thanks for the money quote, octopus, I’ll keep it on hand when it becomes necessary to remind people what a fundamentally dishonest, immoral fucking monster you are. Jesus christ, for someone who says he hates nazis so much you sure do like defending nazis a lot.
I’ve wondered if any of these violent ANTIFA types are actually righties in disguise. That’s the thing about masks, you don’t know who’s under them. Abbie Hoffman once said he could always tell the uc cops because, aside from not getting the hair right, they were always the ones calling for violent action.
I’m sorry, I don’t understand your answers to #3 and #4. Would you mind trying one more time? Here, I’ll ask the questions again:
-
You’re being threatened by fascists. Are you better off or worse off if a group of antifa enter the scene? Is it reasonable to expect that antifa would come to your aid?
-
You’re being threatened by antifa. Are you better off or worse off if a group of fascists enter the scene? Is it reasonable to expect a group of fascists will come to your aid?
OK so fascist have it down to a lifestyle, and antifa are young and learning the ropes.
That actually happened to me once, back in my long lost teenager-hood which is now shrouded in the mists of time. I wore my hair long back then (… I actually had hair back then :() and have always been something of a stick-figure man. A trio of jolly skinheads I crossed paths with late at night in a subway tunnel turned around and started following me. They playfully suggested that my semi-androgynous figure had led them to some fascinating inductions regarding my sexual orientation, and there was a very clear subtext that a frank exchange of views and/or an educational hands-on lecture on finer points of anatomy might be had in the near future ; possibly involving the teaching aids that had started coming out of pockets, not to mention a heavy-looking sports bag.
Needless to say, I was seconds away from shitting my pants in front of these fine people.
To this day I have no idea where the two redskins came from - I might as well have had hysterical blindness at that point - nor why they pretended I was a long-time friend of theirs but in that moment I could have fallen in love with them. They very literally speaking saved my ass (and balls) that night. They escorted me all the way to my train, asked if I was ok (I don’t think I answered, my teeth were nervously clattering so hard ; but I guess the relief spoke for itself), patted me on the shoulder, one of them stuck a can of beer in my unresisting hand, wished me a good ride home and that was that. Never saw either of them again.
I never even learned their names, now that I reminisce about it.
I don’t know about that specific case, but pretending to be Antifa to make them look bad definitely happens a lot online.
Agent provocateurs have sometimes been positively identified among “black bloc” groups, yes. Very often by their shoes, for whatever reason. They rarely seem to think about springing for the ubiquitous pair of DocMarten’s and instead come with their regular police-issued boots/shoes. Though obviously more may have infiltrated without getting noticed. It’s not like anarchists carry membership cards :).
Antifa sometimes infiltrate fascist groups for info gathering purposes as well. So the idea that some fa might be hiding among the antifa is not altogether out there - although I haven’t personally read any positive claims of such, no “I infiltrated antifa for two years, here’s what I learned”. Although obviously that’d be a taller order, since antifa isn’t an organisation at all.
(by the way, why the all capitals ? It’s not an acronym or anything)
I came across a great descriptor recently : he’s a stochastic terrorist. That is to say, he doesn’t encourage this or that group to do this or that brutality ; he just sets things up so that it might just happen “randomly”.
I think the average actual Nazi is more dangerous than the actual antifa. Take that for what you will. I think neither have a right to initiate violence based upon another individual’s exercise of fundamental liberties.
Not at all what I’m asking. But you know that.
I’ll assume you don’t want to answer the questions as posed, for reasons you also don’t wish to disclose. Duly noted.
I’ve had something similar happen in my youth as well. Four middle eastern guys were looking for some easy jewish targets. They were rightly upset about recent events in Sabra and Shatila and wrongly assumed I might have had something to do with it. While half a world away. Fortunately for me I wasn’t the easy target they were looking for. Still, could have gone the other way too. I’d have welcomed some assistance. Seems unlikely it would have come from some passing friendly nazis. It’s [del]jarring[/del] insulting to hear the bothsideisms and equivocation from people who don’t seem to have enjoyed the benefits of similar experiences.
What we need is some law and order, we need a man like Bull Connor!
Who’s with we?
Don’t worry I/we already know who is!
CMC fnord!
The bailiff from “Night Court”? What would that accomplish?
The thought of what America,
The thought of what America,
The thought of what America would be like
If [DEL][COLOR=“Black”]the Classics[/DEL] [/COLOR] History had a wide circulation
Troubles my sleep.
CMC fnord!
OK, ignorance fought, I stand corrected. As a fairly staunch pacifist I’m still not entirely happy about people showing up to protests in armor with weapons, but I have a bit more respect for them if as you say they aren’t attending rallies looking for a fight.
That said, they could really use a PR component of their movement. That may be particularly challenging given their loose structure, but if I, a bleeding heart liberal, news junky gets the wrong idea about them, its unsurprising that the average man on the street would also get the wrong idea.