SC_Wolf, they aren’t the same thing. The 1st amendment guarantees us the right to speak and the FAA is denying that right. The question itself is not reasonably harmful in nature. I think a court would find this to be prior restraint and thus, unconstitutional.
Considering all the dangerous shit that has happened on airplanes in the last 2 years, it pisses me off that this makes so many of you so angry.
I work for an airline. Over the past few years there have been more and more (and worse and worse) incidents of unruly behavior aboard aircraft all over the world. It is the responsibility of the airlines to put a stop to this type of behavior. Aside from training our flight crew and cabin crew to handle these situations as they arise, one of the most effective forms of prevention is to make strong rules, ENFORCE them with out fail, and PUBLICIZE it when such incidents take place.
I don’t think the man in question deserves to go to prison for 20 years. But I think he does deserve to have the living shit scared out of him, and hopefully the story will scare the living shit out of anyone else who thinks it would be funny to make a comment like that. Everyone in this thread is so self-righteously pissed off, but I’m sure none of you will forget this story the next time you fly, and that’s the point.
In short, I think that in light of recent events airlines have a right to be on the defensive, and the correct action was taken in this case. Everyone but the schmuck in question got rerouted. He got fined and scared good. There’s no way they’re going to throw him in prison for 20 years.
So calm down and be glad that the airlines are enforcing rules designed to keep your ass safe.
The airline was doing nothing that kept anybody safe. The dude was not a threat to any kind of security. Pilots don’t have special rights. I am entitled to say any fucking thing I want, to any fucktard pilot, at any fucking time and any fucking place. Whining and bleating about 9/11 is a fucking red herring.
Gotta side with pk, Diogenes et al on this one. Now, how the fuck was the guy supposed to know that jokingly asking a pilot in a friendly way, I presume, “I hope you haven’t been drinking” was gonna clear the airplane? To me it sounds like a friendly, silly comment. I don’t even see this comment as being in the slightest bit assholish. It’s just a stupid joke. C’mon, don’t we all know this type of character? Just breakin the ice with the pilot.
Now, if the guy said, “Hey, stun grenades are allowed as carry-ons, right?” Well, that would then warrant a strong course of action like this. But as it stands, I completely support the guy and I don’t think there is any real safety issue involved here.
Which is why I didn’t mention 9/11 in my post. 9/11 is certainly part of the issue here, but I’d say that this situation is more closely related to recent incidents of pilots flying under the influence of alcohol.
Furthermore, the airline was most definitely acting in the interest of the safety and peace of mind of their passengers. Everyone who heard the comment didn’t necessarily see the guy’s face when he said it, or the pilot’s reaction. What proof is the airline going to provide to concerned passengers? “Nevermind that guy, he’s just an asshole. The pilot’s not drunk, promise.”
More importantly, though, the airline demonstrated to current and potential passengers that any kind of disruptive behavior will not be tolerated. Hearing the story afterwards, we all think “That guy was just a prick…certainly everyone knew he was joking.” But you have no idea what the impressions were of the passengers on the flight.
What proof DID they provide the passengers? Was everyone handed a copy of the pilot’s BAL once the tests got back in? How do they know that the next pilot isn’t stinking drunk? Maybe they should allow us passengers the right to make them blow into straws at will.
What proof was there that there even was even a concerned passenger, let alone passengers? From what we know of the story, no one complained. If I had been on that plane, I’d be more upset with having to deplane and possibly miss a connection rather than the comment itself.
“I hope you haven’t been drinking,” should, by most reasonable men and women be taken as a joke. But let’s assume it isn’t. Let’s assume he said it in all seriousness. Let’s assume the passengers knew he was saying it in all seriousness. I still don’t see it as a safety risk. Why? Because if I was on that plane I’d be praying to every deity from Jehovah to Vishnu that the pilot hadn’t been drinking. It’s probably a statement to make before putting your life in someone else’s hands.
It’s most definitely prior restraint. I think this regulation is unconstitutional. My panties aren’t in a bunch. I’m not getting hysterical. I just strongly believe that this regulation is unconstitutional.
First of all, I seriously doubt that any other passengers would have been incapable of telling that the comment was a joke. Secondly, there was nothing “disruptive” about it. What was disruptive was that a bunch of thin-skinned pilots couldn’t take a fucking joke. Thirdly, let’s not forget that the airlines are working for *us[/]. We pay outrageous prices for shitty, rude service, cramped, uncomfortable seats, and inedible food. We are also forced to endure ridiculous, unnecessary security searches performed by humorless morons, late flights, cancellations and overbookings. Our luggage gets lost, stolen or looted by handlers, we can’t smoke, we can’t put our seats back without crushing the person in back us, and recently we found out that the pilots just might be fucking drunk.
I think that, given the amount of money we shell out as passengers, that it is perfectly reasonable to ask the person we are entrusting our lives to if he is mentally cogent enough to do his fucking job. We have a right to know. If the pilot feels insulted, that’s too fucking bad. The airlines need to stop looking at passengers as cattle which need to be controlled and realize that we are in charge not them.
Amen Diogenes, this is absolute bullshit to the nth degree. I hope this guy realizes that he didn’t do anything wrong and fights this in court.
Okay, granted it was a gross overreaction, and a felony charge is definitely way, way too much.
Nonetheless, when you’re about to put your well-being into the hands of someone who’s probably under a lot of stress, especially with the recent airline industry troubles, especially at this time of year, and even more so due to 9/11 fallout, SHUT THE FRAG UP. Or at least wait until your plane’s safely at its destination, for crying out loud.
Honestly. The hell with hypersensitivity, where the hell did all the common sense go in our society?
Zero tolerance policies are generally an excuse to never use any common sense.
As for what getting a story like this in the media accomplishes, it makes me, Cat Six Q Public think ‘The fucking airline people need a clue rammed up their ass. No wonder I drive everywhere.’
The airline demonstrated that due to their fucked up, shit for brains zero tolerance bullshit that unless there’s no other way for me to get from here to destination, I won’t be flying that or any other airline. I don’t consider that guy to be a prick, and quite frankly I think this is nothing more than a display of a power-trip on the part of the airline staff. Every ‘We will fucking spank you if you get out of line’ incident like this that gets published further diminishes the possibility of me ever being the customer of an airline again.
And they wonder why the fuck they’re going bankrupt left and right.
Shouting “Fire!”, crowded theater, anyone?
You give a lot of credit to the complete cognisance of 300 people jostling onto an aircraft, stowing their baggage, and paying full attention to just about everything except the guy up front, “who I think said something about the pilots being drunk, did you hear that?”
As has been pointed out, the pilots were not being “thin-skinned,” they were following the rules. This is not an issue of injured pride. The pilots didn’t empty the plane because they had been insulted. They emptied the plane because the rules they follow dictate that in situations like this, it is necessary to secure the peace of mind of the passengers.
Maybe the better thing would be for people to stop blaming the airlines for this and start blaming the passengers who DO act like cattle that need to be controlled. Your outrage would be better focused on the dickweed who made the “joke,” not on the pilots and other airline staff who followed the rules they were given.
And again, airlines are responsible not only for securing passengers’ safety, but also maintaining their feelings of safety. Even if it was just a joke, the airline has demonstrated that it takes their passengers’ sense of security seriously, and by publicizing the icident they have helped ensure that future passengers will know what to expect if they make a similar “joke.”
I’m not saying that if I had been on that flight I wouldn’t have been pissed as hell, or that I would be smiling and saying “Yay! The airline cares about my safety!” But I feel it is necessary to appreciate the view of the pilots and airline staff who had to make this decision. You think it’s easy to have the lives of hundreds of total strangers in your hands every day?
What the airline has demonstrated is that they’re a bunch of hyper reactive assholes incapable of exercising rational thought or common sense.
If anything, I think the demonstrated fact that they have no capacity to apply their brains to a situation and instead will follow the exact letter of some employee handbook somewhere would make me worry even more about whether or not they really deserve to have the lives of hundreds of people in their hands.
If you can’t and won’t think, I don’t want my life in your hands.
I took that into consideration. The comment is not like that at all.
I agree with this 100%! It’s not like he yelled out “Hey, the pilots are drunk!”
What if the guy was afraid of flying and asked the question out of nervousness?
I fly all the time and I feel I have the right to ask the pilot of his condition. I feel I have the right to ask questions of bus drivers, taxi drivers, and even a friend who is giving me a lift somewhere.
Now, I may not have the right to an answer, but I feel I have the right to ask them. I am, after all, putting my life/safety in their hands. What are some of you saying? Shut the fuck up and sit down! God bless Amerikkka!:mad:
What if he asked the pilot if he had gotten enough sleep? What if he asked about his health condition? Having any chest pains?
Granted a pilot doesn’t want to be interogated before a flight, but couldn’t a simple answer suffice?
“No, we have not been drinking. Enjoy your flight”.
What’s so fucking hard with that?
You say what they did is comply with the rules?
Rules are for people who can’t think for themselves! Obviously the rules are wrong and need to be change.
Hey, has a PIT rant ever been moved to GD?
I agree totally that a passenger should have a right to ask if the pilots have been drinking. However, one should accept that there are going to be consequences if it’s asked in frivoloty or jest.
I think what the big problem is, is the fact that the average traveler has little concept of the type of Safety Culture that gets ingrained into airline personnel due to the regulations that they must be in compliance with.
For example, let’s take the little chestnut “Rules are for people who can’t think for themselves!” In the Real World, this is true. Airline staff don’t work in the Real World, they work in a regulated Safety World. In this Safety World, there have been studies that go into the Contributing Factors that lead to Human Error. These studies have concluded that when a trained person is operating in a Rules-Based mental mode, the Error Rate is 1 in 1000, and when they think for themsleves, operating in a Knowledge-Based mental mode, the Error Rate skyrockets to 1 in 10 or higher.
Because of research like this, the Airline Personnel working in Safety World are expected to have faith that whatever committee sitting safely in some office on the ground has taken ample time to think out nearly every possible situation and consider the consequences of the set of rules they expect the crew to work by. Those Pilots and Flight Attendants working in Safety World are paid to follow the rules.
Well put, SC. Thanks.
If he’s going to be punished for saying it, then he really doesn’t have the right to say it, does he?
He asked it jokingly. If he had asked it seriously, he would still be punished. Perhaps even more harshly.
I see nowhere in the article that any passenger was upset by the comment, or lost faith in the pilots ability to fly. Only that they didn’t think it was funny. Telling him to sit down and keep his mouth shut would have been a much more appropriate method of dealing withn him.
The FAA guidelines are way, way skewed on this point. The passengers weren’t served by this, the pilots weren’t served this, the airline and the public at large wasn’t served by this. Everybody lost.
In the end though, isn’t this really about protecting the guy’s right to ask? If he had seriously suspected the pilot of drinking and said something about it, I don’t see how they could punish him. The issue here is that passengers DO have the right to ask, and this guy abused it, albeit unknowingly.
If he had asked seriously, the pilots would still have had to report for drug testing, the passengers de-planed and the flight cancelled. Those are the FAA regs and they need to be changed. And I believe he would have punished too.
And all this happened, and he may do time, for telling a joke. When all is said and done, that’s all he did. There’s no abuse there.
We do have actual punishment. A hefty fine and possible criminal charges. You tell me, what was the harm he caused?