This is how you blow a very winnable election

Ugh. We are in big fucking trouble, is the bottom line. What it boils down to is that the Democrats haven’t built a strong coalition, and they don’t know how to sell an idea. All of these other things being discussed are secondary to that, but the reason why they are going to be divisive wedge issues in this election and very likely hand Trump a victory, is because of it.

We want the same things with respect to overhauling the police but disagree on how best to frame the arguments for getting there.

Problem is that the Democrats ARE building a coalition - with disaffected Republicans. They seem to think that running to the right is the way to go, and that was perfectly shown during the DNC. They are leaving those of us on the left behind, so we are continuing on with our own goals regardless of what the Dems want.

There is a new 538 article on this subject, and I’m actually pretty surprised by a lot of it. Overall it says that the backlash against BLM thus far hasn’t created a bloc of would-be Biden voters who break over it, but it’s of course possible in the future.

Also apparently Biden has denounced Defund the Police

This is a bit worrying however IMO:

Obviously the people at 538 know more than me, but I don’t think voters are rational to look at Biden’s rhetoric, and even a few independent voters responding negatively to BLM could be an issue.


Democrats need to stop freaking out. The best you can do in any election is to get as many good people to the polls as possible. It’s the only winning formula. Get 'em registered, get 'em an absentee ballot, or get 'em to the polls. Vote.

Stop worrying aboout trump supporters. Anyone who backs this ‘president’ after all of the lying, the unnecessary deaths, the criminality, the appalling human rights abuses, and the submission to Putin…well, they’re irredeemable. Beyond hope or help. They are the children we are burdened with, dragging them kicking and screaming into a better future. Pity them, for they know not what they do. Tune out their gibbering and dissembling.

Concentrate on what needs to be done.

We’re in big fucking trouble but it has absolutely nothing to do with the Democrats’ coalition. It has to do with the fact that a majority of white Americans are junkies for racial hierarchy. When the apocalypse happens, we’ll hear 7 trumpets, and we will see millions of middle-age white males under bridges all across the land injecting themselves with the opiate of white supremacy

That’s because the democratic party is trying to represent all of the people that the republican party refuses to.

They have at best orthogonal interests and needs, and sometimes even conflicting.

It really is at least two parties worth of planks at this point, with pretty much the only uniting factor being that they are not represented by republicans.

No, I do agree that “defund the police” is not the best way of framing the argument. I have framed the argument entirely differently, never using that term.

We only disagree on whether or not we should try to tell protesters how to protest.

That was from June. On June 10, Reuters/ipsos had support for defunding the police at 39%. June 14-16 had an Economist/Yougov poll showing support down at 24%. The last recent Gallup poll had support for defunding the police at 15%.

That poll is telling you what the real concerns of the people are.

Yes quite a bit:

First shooting

While Mr. Rittenhouse is being pursued by the group, an unknown gunman fires into the air, though it’s unclear why. The weapon’s muzzle flash appears in footage filmed at the scene.

Mr. Rittenhouse turns toward the sound of gunfire as another pursuer lunges toward him from the same direction. Mr. Rittenhouse then fires four times, and appears to shoot the man in the head.

Second shooting

Mr. Rittenhouse seems to make a phone call and then flees the scene. Several people chase him, some shouting, “That’s the shooter!”

As Mr. Rittenhouse is running, he trips and falls to the ground. He fires four shots as three people rush toward him. One person appears to be hit in the chest and falls to the ground. Another, who is carrying a handgun, is hit in the arm and runs away.

Mr. Rittenhouse’s gunfire is mixed in with the sound of at least 16 other gunshots that ring out during this time.

Sorry…replied to the wrong person.

If they’re white, it’s stand your ground. If they’re black, it’s shoot 'em down.

@agzem. Thanks for the links. It looks as if this malfunctioning piece of shit traveled all over midwest looking for black people to murder.

All three were white. One was a pedophile, another was a domestic abuser, and another criminal who was trying to shoot Rittenhouse point blank but Rittenhouse shot him first.

This is what common sense looks like! Well said.

Glad we agree. Yes, spot on.

No. Not what I’m asking for. A John Lewis style march/rally is always welcome. The burning and looting is most decidedly not, and neither is intimidating people into pledging fealty to your cause. There is a world of difference between those things.

Yes, a 3-way race in which his two opponents were conservative old white guys from Texas.

Great point. And I constantly see liberal friends share videos from the BLM types who actually do defend, even celebrate, burning and looting. And it’s not just other Democrats like me who see this: it’s everyone in their family, or who they went to high school with, who knows they are on the left. So it is terrible branding for our side. (And it’s funny how, although the people in the videos are Black, the people sharing them always seem to be white, trying to virtue signal to the max.) It’s absolutely crazymaking.

I would love this. On my local CBS TV station, the host of a Hannity-style show that comes on right after the CBS Evening News played a voicemail from a listener in which the woman said “Joe Biden gave a good speech, read it from the teleprompter. But Kamala Harris is going to be the one running the show, and she’s going to close all the prisons and let all the inmates go free.” The host didn’t correct her at all! I was so pissed. But if we’re already carrying the burden of the left not trusting her from her prosecutorial background, we may as well use it to our advantage to get her to reassure moderate white suburbanites. She needs some moderation of her brand with them anyway, after she was rated on DW-NOMINATE is the second-most-liberal Democrat in the Senate (after Warren but ahead of Bernie).

This is ridiculous. And I am positive you have this backward. Only someone with your privilege can afford to place this kind of purity policing over the real necessity of getting Trump out of office. This is exactly why Black Democratic primary voters so consistently go for moderate candidates, why they supported Joe Biden overwhelmingly: they are pragmatic and know that it’s much more important to get Republicans out of power than to elect the ideal progressive Democrat.


Yes, this. Or just “reform the police”.

This is quite obviously untrue. I’m against the movement, and I’m also against Trump and the GOP. This is true for many people, and we can walk and chew gum at the same time. If we see the movement as jeopardizing our goal of defeating the GOP, then we do have a reason to criticize it, and anyone who also wants to defeat the GOP should definitely listen to what we have to say.

They shouldn’t! If Trump does this, he’s throwing us right into the briar patch, where Rust Belt suburbanites will feel much more comfortable with us in power. Meanwhile, the left will grumble but they will still go vote Democratic because Trump and the GOP are so awful. Win-win.

People like Boudicca will jump up and down and stamp their feet and vow not to vote for Biden in this scenario, but (a) I don’t believe them, (b) the vast majority of them are not in swing states, and © flipping a swing voter makes twice as much difference as attracting or retaining a progressive voter.

I’m voting Howie Hawkins, but you are right that I live in California, so this state will go to Biden anyway. I haven’t voted Democrat since 2008, the party left me behind quite some time ago. The only way I could vote for Biden is if I still lived in a swing state like Nevada, and even then I would find it difficult. As the GOP slides further and further into fascism, the Dems seem to want to take their place on the center-right. I am still a Democrat, but only to make sure progressives still have some influence to save the party from itself.

Cite for these claims?

And if my aunt had wheels she would be a bicycle.

Don’t overthink your weak tea replies. As pointed in the past, you continue to ignore that the ones tempting fate now are others. Many of those appeared in the last day of the convention from the old grand party of the old Republicans.

We got fanning the flames guys like conspiracy theorist Giuliani, the racist confederate Tim Cotton, and the divisive Trump on top.

Sounds like healing in America. /s

More like a super spreader of hate and corona virus.

When I saw the police in the article’s video, grouped around a fence and spraying a protester, I did remember this classic cartoon from Ron Cobb:

The president saying “Mah fellow Americans” surrounded by shady looking police, keeping his so called “fellow” Americans out of his view.