There is a Joseph Rosenbaum who was convicted of killing his child.
But unless he broke out of prison, that’s not the same one.
While the case of self defense is weak, even if it were to hold up, that doesn’t mean that Joseph Rosenbaum was not a shooting victim.
Rationalwiki and urbandictionary may be poor sources, I agree, but Merriam Webster is generally considered to be reputable.
Definition of victim
1 : one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent
Now that we have improved your poor understanding of the English language, would you care to actually answer the question?
Which is entirely counterproductive considering the present-day situation.
What is more important?
Getting Trump out of office, even if it means making temporary allies with disaffected Republicans?
or
Sticking to your lefty goals, and screwing the whole thing, giving us four more years of Trump and his bullshit?
That really is the choice here, and people on the left who don’t see that and who are divisive within their own party/side of the ideological fence are likely the ones who are going to screw the pooch on this thing, because they’re going to both more firmly entrench any potentially disaffected Republicans who might have switched sides, as well as potentially drive away some centrists/slightly right of center types who hate Trump but also hate the stuff the far Left wants as well.
It’s totally stupid to make this election a choice between Trumpism and Progressivism/far-Left stuff. That’s the sort of thing that will lose this election. Instead, be sensible and make it a choice between common sense, dignity, responsible, transparent and truthful government and Trumpism.
Particularly after Bernie endorsed Biden, saying not supporting Biden is irresponsible.
At the same time, pushing those lefties out is not going to do us any favors.
Which is more important, getting Trump out of office, even if it means giving some of those on our side what they have been asking for for decades?
Or,
Sticking to the centrist position, losing the progressive vote, and giving us four more years of Trump.
I’m pretty moderate. Raised republican white middle class, still white middle class in middle class neighborhood, now a business owner.
Take away the abortion debate, and I probably have more in common with Kasich and Romney than I do with AOC or Bernie.
I only reluctantly voted for the D in my last gubernatorial election, as the R, who ended up winning, was actually superior in nearly every way, other than being of the opposing party. I’m actually glad that he won, as I think that DeWine did a better job at handling Covid than Cordray would have.
That said, we will never attract as many moderate republicans into our ranks as we alienate progressives by courting them.
Here’s why the riots may not affect the race as much as some people think:
I’m looking at the front page of our local newspaper. IMO, it accurately reflects the things people are actually most concerned about today
The subjects are:
- COVID, and how it affects schools.
- Wildfires.
- Hurricanes.
The first article about the RNC is on page 4. The first article about the Wisconsin riots is on page 7.
In other words, most people really don’t care about the riots.
THANK YOU.
It has pissed me off that so many of the might-as-well-be-conservatives (from my point of view out here in left field 
) make these tired arguments with a false dichotomy that they think oh-so-cleverly supports their position, then whine that it is the progressives that refuse to budge an inch.
For what it is worth, YES, I’m voting Biden. NO, I’m not excited about it.
They care about the riots.
The thing that Biden and Harris have to do is to make sure to turn this back around on Trump. It’s Trump who is inciting the riots, after he promised to bring law and order in 2016. It’s been 4 years and there is less law and order than there was when he took office. Why is that?
He said that he alone could fix it. Well he hasn’t. He’s fucked it all up, and Democrats just need to get that message across over and over again.
Fuck I am tired of Democrats being pussies who get punched in the face and don’t know how to punch back.
Amen.
I can only assume you meant that in agreement with me, since it was the entire point of my post.
To argue that the emotional needs of quasi-racist white people who might vote Democrat is more important than the emotional needs of a 400-years repressed peoples who are still getting murdered by our countries systems (as the OP does) is morally repugnant. Perhaps the answer is, instead of putting the onus of the reaction to white racism on the backs of black people, maybe we ought to put the onus of white racism on… you know… white people.
I don’t get your p.o.v. sometimes.
Everything we’ve seen about this elections cycle tells us that the way to blow a very winnable election is to abandon the moderates - people not so different from you and me in many ways. While we both agree with most left leaning policies, the results of Bernie’s bids for nomination underscore the point that most of America isn’t there yet. And you say you worry more about the alienation of leftists than Kasich and Romney moderates, knowing that the real threat is Trumpism?
Do you really believe that there is a better chance for compromise with the extremist left than with the very well motivated anti-Trump ® moderates? The very same ® moderates that marginally went for Trump in 2016 and who are throwing their support behind Biden while the far left is claiming it has long been abandoned because Bernie is not the nominee. The same far left, need I remind you, that ultimately failed to show up for Bernie to get him that nomination.
How do you square that with the pragmatic moderate-ism you’re espousing?
As a moderate democrat, I don’t feel abandoned at all. In fact, I feel a bit too catered to. I live a pretty safe, comfortable life. The few things that I personally would benefit from are not really that high a priority.
I see progressives, and I hear them tell me that they do feel abandoned, that their needs are not being heard, much less addressed, and I see that this has been the case for as far back as I can look.
That video that you posted in the other thread, did you look at the date of it? 2014. That was not Trump’s fault. It happened on Obama’s watch, so, would you actually go to the victim of that shooting, and tell him that the real threat to his safety is Trump?
College affordability, housing, healthcare, these are all things that take a much lower priority than making sure that I am comfortable. And the ask is that they come and make sure that my pillow is fluffed before they address the people losing their homes.
I don’t need any more courting, and my republican acquaintances have either already come over to voting D in this election, or they never will.
There is no more hanging fruit for the D’s to pick up to the right, it’s all claimed.
But to the left, we need those votes. We really do, as you said, they didn’t turn out in 2016. I was angry and frustrated by that, but at the same time, I am pragmatic, and rather than rant and complain about them not sacrificing their needs for the “greater good” (like chocolate mints left on my pillow), I recognize that in order to actually deserve their support, we need to at least listen to their needs, and even address them seriously.
If you really want to make them know that you aren’t going to deal with their problems, and to even make sure that they know that they won’t be heard, telling them to stop raising their voices because it is making the moderates uncomfortable is the absolute surest way to make sure that they get that message.
Why the hell should progressives support a party that tells them to shut up?
Well agzem, I started by giving you the benefit of the doubt. We don’t have enough conservative posters here and we need some with good rational arguments. Unfortunately you have offered none and tried to pawn off some semi random Twitter account as a good cite. I can safely ignore whatever you’re trying to say.
I’m well aware that the video preceded Trump. I posted it because it was so egregious and because I’m aware that this shit’s been going on a long time.
Because they are an unreliably fickle source of support. Bernie Sanders is my cite.
FWIW, I’m not telling them to shut up. I’m advocating for a clear, less provocative, more inclusive message that will still get them what they want. Why are we even still talking about this? You already said you thought the messaging was wrong. Can we drop this line of argument finally? The nail has been pounded flush.
And chasing moderate Republicans who have not already come on board is even more fickle.
They will constantly move the goal posts, just asking for one more thing, one more compromise on the overall left agenda, before they feel “comfortable” supporting Biden.
Saw exactly the same with the ACA debate. They kept claiming that they just had a bit more that they wanted. By the time it was passed, it was a watered down useless piece of junk that still didn’t garner a single republican vote.
You asked
In every election but this one. Trump has united Democrats and anti-Trump moderates and we ought not waste that advantage to chase left-wing politics.
Exactly. Republicans are either against Trump, or they are not.
If they prefer Trump over police reform, then they aren’t really the moderates that we are looking for.
I’m doing calculus here, and I see that for every bit that we tack right to pick up another moderate republican, we are going to lose several progressives.
We are not chasing left wing politics, we are just not abandoning a enormous part of our own party in favor of courting the other one.
Let’s hope that once this election is over, we can sort things out. The Republicans go to nothing or weak third party status, maybe join forces with the libertarians, and then the democratic party splits into a progressive and a moderate wing.
Then we moderates can be free to tack a bit to the right to pick up those moderate republicans. And I can be free to voice my disagreements with AOC and BLM and Bernie without needing to worry about alienating them, as they are already the opposition party.
But until then, party unity is more important, IMHO, than trying to cater to the Republicans.
In my hopeful scenario, I don’t know who gets to (or who has to) keep custody of the name “Democrat.”
The thing that liberals don’t seem to realize is that Bernie actually WAS the compromise.
I’m not a social democrat, i’m a socialist, as in a collective ownership of the means of production socialist. Most of Bernie’s core support were farther left than he is, and he was the bridge between us and the Democrats, but even his modest proposals were too extreme for them.
Bernie has thrown in with Biden out of pragmatism, and I understand that, but we aren’t beholden to him as the issues we are fighting for are more important than him. I’ve heard for the last 20 years now how the Dems will start supporting progressive platforms like Medicare For All any day now, with hardly anything to show for it. I’m done waiting.
Exactly, and I look forward to the day when we can be two different parties, and we can come to a compromise on such things as rational opponents, rather than being part of a party that keep promising these things to you and then pulling out the rug.
That’s yet another reason I want the GOP to wither and die, so the centrist Dems can become our new “conservative” party and we can split off into our own Socialist party (or one of the existing ones).