I actually was the poster who mentioned my difficulties with anxiety in an earlier post. Like I said earlier, I don’t view it as anyone’s problem but my own. I think most men who worry about this type of thing are probably anxiety prone to begin with.
That’s true, but we generally consider that to be unacceptable and the word “lynching” is sometimes used figuratively to describe it.
What’s different about this issue is that we’re actually hearing some people say that it doesn’t matter if innocent men lose their careers because past injustice.
Agree with everything you’ve said here except one: one unfounded accusation IS likely to ruin someone’s reputation. What if the person is a soccer coach or a teacher? Unfounded allegations can absolutely ruin lives, as can actual sexual assaults, so there should be some kind of punishment for those who make false accusations. Taking advantage is taking advantage.
That vulnerable and uneasy feeling you have is something we women have to live with any time we are around a man who is armed with a weapon, capable of physically overpowering us, or capable of destroying our career prospects. Suck it up and deal with it like we have to. I have no sympathy.
False accusations have certainly crossed my mind. I feel for someone like Geoffrey Rush right now because amidst all the hoopla he has been accused and he doesn’t even know what he has been accused of. It is difficult to respond to anonymous allegations no matter who someone is. And of course the ability to take someone down with a mere allegation must be very tempting, especially if there is no consequence for the accuser if the allegation is found to be false.
Five or six are more likely to collude to come up with a story than one single person. And many times, what do those five or six have to lose?
Interesting proposition, but you probably wouldn’t like my world anyway, and I doubt I would fit very well into yours.
I apologize for not identifying you with your previous post. But as you can see, at least I read the content carefully!
You can always find an asshole to say anything, but who seriously says that innocent men should lose their careers?
Effectively, the people who deny and dismiss any indication that false accusations might happen, and get offended when someone else is concerned about something to the point they have to derail any conversation about those concerns.
I guess this is how we are different.
I would never tell a woman to suck it up and deal with it.
You seem pretty comfortable in doing just that.
mmm
Yeah, those people are just terrible. I hope I never encounter such a person.
We’re not talking about a stripper angry at her shitty treatment at the hands of a lacrosse team and whether she might retaliate. We’re talking about a six-year-old girl ruining the life of a complete stranger. (Which, we may point out, would also ruin her life, and if she understands enough to make such an accusation in the first place probably indicates that she’s already been abused by someone else).
We’re talking about an irrational fear. Yes, people overdose from heroin injections. That doesn’t make my terror of flu shots reasonable.
As a female I do find this hard to relate to.
I don’t know, statistically, what little girls chances are of being sexually assaulted by a random man in a movie theatre, or if they are statically similar to the chances of a random man being falsely accused of sexually assaulting a little girl in a movie theatre, but both have life ruining potential.
I know many victims of sexual assault, many women and girls who have first been assaulted and then falsely accused of fabricating their assault. I’ve seen people online and on these very boards caution that we shouldn’t accept a victim’s accusation of sexual assault at face value but should give the (absent) accused the benefit of the doubt until it’s proven in a court of law, while I’ve never seen anyone caution that when someone has described being mugged or robbed or the victim of practically any other crimes.
I’m aware of local cases where victims have been chastised for exposing the man who sexually assaulted them even when his guilt wasn’t in doubt; I know of an uncle who gave a positive character reference in defence of the man who sexually assaulted his sister, nieces and cousins; I know a mother who believes ALL the victims of a school principal were colluding against him, and that his guilty plea to all charges was just him trying to protect them from the consequences of their actions because he was so caring.
I know daughters who were thrown out of their homes as teenagers for accusing their stepfathers by mothers whose kneejerk reaction was to disbelieve them, daughters who had to be taken into foster care to protect them from their father because their mother wouldn’t leave even when his sexual abuse of them came to light; a mother who accused her daughter of lying about her brother molesting her, and sided directly with him.
I’m not unsympathetic to men who are falsely accused of sexual assault, and I’m not unsympathetic to a fear of a false accusation of sexual assault… But in my experience, both that little girl and the man sitting beside her had something to fear from the other whether it be a false accusation or an actual assault. No matter how compelling a case could be made for his innocence, some would always doubt him. No matter how compelling a case could be made for his guilt, some would always doubt her.
And as it turns out, any fears from either side were overblown. False accusations against strangers are rare, as are assaults by strangers.
If MMM now goes around with a heightened awareness of the need to protect himself by not allowing himself into a vulnerable situation with a female, it doesn’t seem so very different to women who are aware that they need to protect themselves by not allowing themselves to be in a vulnerable situation with a male. And in both cases: if something goes horribly wrong, they’ll be blamed for not doing enough to protect themselves from the other party, no matter what lengths they go to or how feasible alternatives would be.
Please say this was a joke.
I think MMM himself appreciates that his fear is irrational (not sure jtur88 does), that’s why he did not actually move. He knows it is not “reasonable.” A random child is not going accuse a stranger at a movie theater like the girls screaming “witch” at Salem, and ruin his life. It would be much more rational to be obsessing over the possibility of slipping on some spilled popcorn “butter” in the theater and cracking his skull open than that. And he appreciates that the fear many women have of being sexually harassed or assaulted is OTOH a quite rational and realistic one, that must be addressed in a serious way. His fear is nevertheless quite real. It is similar I suspect to your fear of needles: someone telling you that is not reasonable won’t make it any easier for you to get your flu shot and if enough people had your fear there would be significant consequences to society. The fact that I share neither of those irrational fears in no way means that I should be dismissive of them and their impacts on each of you.
There are lots of irrational fears that many share and that result behaviors that in aggregate have significant impact. Honestly the odds of any of us being killed in a terror attack is very very small yet many are afraid of it and much has been done to address those fears.
Is this one of those irrational fears, or one that is uncommon and, like your needle phobia something that is of impact pretty much to the one individual alone? If the former then those who blithely tell him to “suck it up” are not just being unsympathetic assholes, they are being fools, because fear, irrational or not, motivates behaviors more than does reason. Unaddressed irrational fear can prevent the rational from being accomplished.
I’m not sure how common it is but finding out is a bit difficult if anyone sharing it is mocked or attacked.
And while I have, with kids at least, a variety of techniques that at least sometimes help fear of needle circumstances, and for that matter with monsters in the closet too, I do not know what the best approach to dealing with the sort of irrational fear MMM expresses. I would however hope that people here could, if not be part of problem solving on how to address it, at least not shut down any possibility of doing so.
I’m not saying that false accusations of men by women or children *never *happen. But this being the Dope, let’s get a statistical analysis of how often that occurs (and an innocent man has his life ruined because the woman or child is of course believed over the man’s protestations. Versus how often the exact opposite occurs, in which there is an actual attack, and the woman or child is disbelieved. Without even adding in the something like 75% of attacks which the woman or child never tells anyone about, because of the likelihood of that occurring.
I am guessing here that the amazing lopsidedness of these statistics might give someone on the non-male side, just a bit of jadedness or dare I say it, even a tad of schadenfreude.
SNL just did a skit on it. Titled, Welcome To Hell. I thought it was kinda funny.
Just went to Youtube and watched SNL “welcome to hell”. Was there a point to that?
I met a guy a while back who was once a volunteer for an NGO that worked with orphans from the Yugoslavian wars. He said the first day on the job, he walked into a room and he suddenly had a dozen pre-teen boys and girls hanging all over him. Of course, his first reaction was Whoa, but then he found a lot of these kids had watched their families murdered or blown up, got processed through assembly-line orphanages, and were starved for affection. Soon he was on the floor under a delirious monkeypile of screaming laughing children.
I wonder if now, in our society, if children are also suffering from systematic absence of hands-on affection. But the social warning system has taught them to never accept it from anyone. What happens then?
The problem is not so much with naive young children being too shy of strangers as jtur88 suggests, or of them making false accusations.
The problem is the ambient fear and loathing of adults (especially single male adults) by other adults.
Mean Mr. Mustard isn’t so much in danger of the kid in the theater making a false accusation, he is in danger of the kid’s father making a false accusation or thinking, for any reason or no reason, that MMM is a dangerous creep just for being there.
Take the case of the guys who got the stink-eye for stopping to watch those kids playing soccer. They weren’t accused to anything by any of the kids there. They were treated with contempt and suspicion by other adults there, and for no reason other than EWM (Existing While Male) without having kids of their own there.
To make things worse, children are prone to say innocuous things that adults interpret as heinous accusations. This is the sort of thing that you hear teachers complain of a lot.
Anecdote: Once, when I was in 3rd grade, the teacher (a grandmotherly type) tucked my shirt in for me. What if that had happened these days, and what if I, a 3rd-grader, were to innocently mention it to somebody. That’s certainly not an accusation, let alone a false one. But BAM! there’s quite possibly one career shot to hell.